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[AKidsRight.Org] Your FEEDBACK - on our rights, reform, jail & it hurts not to see your kids!

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From: AKidsRight.Org Webmaster (
Date: Sun Jan 02 2005 - 20:42:10 EST

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Good People & People of Faith,

This message consists entirely of your recent FEEDBACK.  

1. Right to be a parent - how important and why?
2. I'm just one - how do I help?
3. Not seeing your kids - does it get any worse & giving up?
4. Why Jail & what to do about hate, anger, revenge?
5. Child Support - it is NOT about the money.
6. A criminal - still a parent?

Some good points were raised about reform: what it will be, and how it
will be achieved?  Many people wonder why parents haven't 'joined
forces' -- perhaps we still don't share common goals?  This is a BIG
message, but if you read only one message -- please read the comments
of Jahlul (below).  He truly captures what we are fighting for and

We hope you will take the time to look at the views below, especially
those you disagree with.  That is the big purpose of FEEDBACK. How do
you respond to these views with courtesy and respect?

1. Right to be a parent - how important?

--- Jahlul <>

> I am one of the parents that is without children because the mother
> finds it fitting to conceal the children. I am not discouraged by
> these action's. Matter of fact, I will re-channel the energy and
> take a stand in spirit and flesh, that the good of parental
> relationships father and children are not made by one parent nor the
> courts of this world. Sure they can regulate or time together, yet
> our love and blessing from our Creator can never be broken by time,
> space, nor human laws.

Yes, you are VERY right there!  It is a basic Civil Right that we need
to see protected -- the right of parents and children to each other!

> I pray that all parents rejoice in the blessing of being a parent,
> and never allow anyone nor anything come between your being one from
> the Creator. I also pray for those that show no respect to the laws
> of our Creator. Have mercy on their soul's. "We forgive those that
> trust pass against our families, for they know not what they do"
> Peace and Love to all families and creation. Standing up

> I give thanks 

2. I'm just one - how do I help?

--- Jeff <>

> I want to help in anyway possible to get this system corrected. I do
> have a computer, although very limited in experience, I feel that I
> have a large pool of concerned adults who would support us in this
> effort. I live in southern Oregon, I will be extremely willing to
> travel, organize, inform, talk to whoever will listen, speak to
> congressmen or even Congress..for I have a story to tell. Because of
> the sensitive nature of what has happened to my children I will be
> selective in sharing such info.

Probably the greatest help would be in getting a group of parents
together and visiting your Members of Congress.  We have a 'contact
kit' to help on our Legislative Action page,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/legislative.htm -- once you are ready I
would be happy to send your contact info out on our list and have
other folks contact you who are from the area.

Please do NOT send or email us any info you want to be held private!

>  God has put it on my heart that we need to appeal to President Bush
>  about the Family Rights Act, It needs to be part of his
>  legacy. That in itself is appealing!  I am already planning some
>  primary steps in collecting local support thru some of the churches
>  in the S. Oregon area and would appreciate any and all assistance
>  in doing what ever is required to eliminate the injustice that is
>  choking the life out of our kids (and parents) throughout this
>  country. Thank you, I anxiously await your reply. Jeff Dunkin

3. Not seeing your kids for the holidays - does it get any worse?
In response to our Holiday greetings:

--- Rob Steel <>

> Thank you for your email.  Its powerful... Im not going to see my
> daughter this Christmas again.  Its been 5 years since Ive seen her
> on a holiday.  There was a 20 month gap where we were seperated, and
> she's Six.  Im with some guys from around the country that are
> starting an "Action" group.  We've staged One Rally that got decent
> media attention and NO JAIL time.  You are 100% correct with your
> views and actions, but theres power in numbers.  I know several
> People in NY that will stand with you.  You guys should all rally
> together.  ..  Anyway thanks and god bless..


>  I would love to lose the vengeance and hatred that constantly runs
>  thru my veins, that keeps me up at night and has turned me into an
>  very angry person. How is it possible?  I haven't seen my son in
>  months, my ex's atty is constantly glad handing me for more CS plus
>  her FEES, and I'm not going to see my son for this holiday, again.

Boy, sorry to hear what is happening to you and your son!  I have been
through so much of that myself and at times I could put my fist right
through a wall the anger is so much.

It is no 'bull' when I say the NonViolent action has released me from
much of that (http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm).  When I
dropped my son off he was in tears -- I am fortunate that he has kept
a strong bond to me through it all (a lot of people aren't so lucky!).
You can find more details on my story on our Hall of Shame page,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ -- look for John Murtari, Lyons, NY.

I encourage you to keep the Faith and see your son every minute you
can and do whatever you can under your control to see him.  It is the
worst when they alienate you and your son hesitates to come to you!
Don't let that stop you.

--- Jerry Loney <>

> Thanks, John!  And, Happy Holidays!  After fighting and trying to
> see my kids for over four years, I finally terminated my parental
> rights and on December 17, my children became another man's
> children.  I have not seen my children in over four years and
> neither has any of my family or close friends!  And, actually, the
> last day that I had my children overnight was on August 3, 1998"
> Sad, isn't it?!?!  Truly, it is!!  But, now I am not stuck with the
> $6,000. a year in child support and not being able to see my
> children.  We were separated/divorced when the children turned 5 and
> 7 and now, early in January, they will be 12 and 14 ...

...  It is a tragedy when walking away makes more sense and another
measure of how crazy the system is.

--- Nancy Janyszeski <> 

> As the wife of a non-custodial parent whose 13 year old daughter
> chose not to visit us this Christmas I can attest to the pain this
> causes.
> We are aware of how 13 year olds are, but the fax we received showed
> an outside enfluence.  We are slowly moving where many non-custodial
> parents have gone before.
> "Call us when your 18".  Life is far too short and there are too
> many good things in life to be in a constant state of anxiousness
> and stress.


http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm   "Family Rights Act"

> Comments:: i read your draft i didnt see anything on p.f.a.s . pfa's
> need to be proven and not a tool for custody. in todays courts a
> woman can walk in and say you abused her and without proof she gets
> it and you dont get to see your children. this is wrong.

I got a copy of your message.  It is always a problem when there is an
excuse for a 'temporary' order that separates you from the kids.
There is a 'speedy trial' provision in the act which says if they want
to do that then you have the right to get a trial within 30-60 days.
The system rarely wants to do that since they have to hurry.  That
would hopefully keep it from being used frivolously.  Let me know if
you have other wording you would like to see.

--- Judy <>

> That touched my heart. You will be in my prayers and I will pray
> this time that they will listen to you and that you will not get
> arrested. You are trying to make a stand that is right for so many
> non-custodial parents and I know God will be behind you.

> My husband and I have been fighting for his son for 10 years because
> he wanted to live with his father. We won't do it anymore. We can't
> afford to play the game anymore. He is 13 and has a mind of his
> own. If he wants to change his circumstances, he will have to make
> the move. We lost big time this time and we are very down on the way
> the courts are run and the whole legal system. The Judge has the
> power to do anything he wants and you just can't do squat about
> it. It's not right legally or morally. The boy wants to live with us
> and we could provide the better home but it doesn't matter. They
> wouldn't listen to him, either. His mother has mentally and
> physically abused him all his life but DCF won't do anything about
> it because she works for the system and knows how to play the game;
> and she knows all of them! And the Judge we had this time was her
> attorney with her first divorce and he wouldn't step down. The
> Judge's wife was one of her bosses. Now that's justice!! !! We filed
> all the complaints and like everyone told us-"they won't do anything
> to the Judge or attorney's because they all sleep in the same bed".

Yes, it is truly an amazing system and they are not accountable.
That is why we feel so strongly that a jury of your peers needs to
you guilty of being a demonstrated harm to your kids -- before anyone
can interfere in your contact.  You can't leave these types of
to a judge alone or some counselors! 

4. Why Jail & What to do about hate, anger, revenge?

--- Susan Bennett <>

> I pray that you don't end up in jail. That's not a good way to start
> the New Year. However, I give you my respect and blessing for
> attempting in achieving a goal that we all would like to see get
> accomplished. Many of us women have thought about camping out on the
> Whitehouse lawn with picket signs.

Yes, thanks for the kind words. I'm afraid that until parents do
something that will capture the public's imagination there won't be
any significant changes.

> I know I may sound like a man-hater, but I'm not. I just don't like
> injustice of any kind and as a mother...we were the first ones to
> feel our babies kick from our womb. I am disgusted with these "men's
> rights" because first of all, they make more money that most women
> even in the same field, second, they don't seem to have to come up
> with the kind of money women have to in order to obtain an attorney,
> third of all, most politicians, judges, congressman etc are males
> and therefore it's more male dominated ...

Yes, the issues really needs to be the right to nurture your own
children without government interfering in their relationship.  It
should be understood that fit parents decide 'best interest' before
any judge or social worker ...  as you say, most of those folks
really don't care ... It is just a job.

> On, I have now befriended 4 women, one in
> Philadelphia, one in Wisconsin, one in Florida, one in North
> Carolina and I'm in Southern California. We all have our sad stories
> and I'm sure yours is also. I feel children have the right to be
> with their fathers but the mothers should not be completely deleted
> from the picture and unfortunately that is what is happening ...

I'd welcome your feedback on the Family Rights Act,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm -- the goal is equal parenting.

> 4. If two people (case and point, my and ex and me) cannot
> communicate amicably or in a civil manner, then the children should
> be dropped off at one place and the other parent pick up that child
> so that the parents don't have to see each other. What hurts
> children is seeing their parents argue, it's very humiliating to a
> child. I'm sure they would just prefer the transfer be done
> peacefully and not have to witness any verbal or hostile actions.

Yes, you are very right. The present system almost rewards 'scenes' 
since it can be used to cutoff the other parent.

> 5. Each parent should have 50% custody and should be able to join in
> the children's activities, without threat or harm. All I ever hope
> and pray for my children is that they are happy and healthy. I know
> GOD is watching them for me, but truth of the matter is, it doesn't
> take away the heartache ...

Yes, I quite agree.

> Just remember, nothing is impossible with GOD. I hope someday this
> can all work out for everyone's benefit. I hope to hear from you in
> the upcoming new year and that you have good news to share... I
> really need prayers on "forgiveness". It's funny how you can forgive
> the person that cut you off in traffic, you can forgive a cashier
> that overcharged you, you can forgive that co-worker that grates on
> your very last nerve, but I have such a difficult time forgiving my
> ex. I think because everyone is irrelevant, they will not be a
> permanent fixture in your life, but to have to constantly deal with
> the person that you became divorced from so that you wouldn't have
> to deal with them, I have issues with that. Take care.

Amen to what you say about nothing being impossible. All you have to
have is the Faith to try and do what you can do within your power --
God will take care of the rest. Thanks for the thoughtful message.

--- Anon <>

> Well there are some classes at colleges in civil rights movements
> maybe we need to study some more... of this heard of the
> Americans with disabities act, for example and others.Ghandi led a
> peacful revolution. It can be done.

Yes, I think Gandhi and King's effort set good examples of Civil
Rights efforts where there was strong opposition.  I am not so sure
about the disability act?  It was needed and required public awareness
-- but it didn't have the hostility that the other movements had.  It
really did not require public sacrifice to drive the point home.

> My thought is that you are shutting out a lot of _non costodial moms
> like me.

??  I do try to emphasize that we need mothers and fathers involved in
the effort.  The group is about equal parenting regardless of gender.
I think sometimes in the FEEDBACK you get a lot of one view or another
(and a lot from men), but that just reflects what we get.

> ... I think they should have mandatory pschological intervention for
> families the trouble is wew do not have a national heath care system
> and force parents to work postitively or lose their privleges.

We have some draft legislation, a Family Rights Act,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm -- I welcome your feedback.  It does
not really support the idea of a 'psych eval' -- you have the right to
be an equal parent of your child unless you are convicted by a jury of
being a demonstrated threat?  You mention the word 'privilege' above?
Is that what being a parent is, something that government controls?

> I had costudy interfered with and vistation along with purgerous
> lies which I am appealing and have documented. Should the tax payers
> bear this burdon? Mayn families they stay together despite affairs
> etc do not wish to pay extra taxes because of the breakdown in the
> family. I am sure some brainstorming could include positive answers.

Unfortunately, right now there is an advantage to all the struggle and
lies that go on.  There is no real proof required of anything and one
part or the other can benefit quite a bit.  The Family Rights Act is
an attempt to say you are both EQUAL parents with your kids and unless
you are prepared to get a unanimous verdict from a jury of twelve,
that the other parent is a demonstrated threat to the kids -- don't
bother fighting?  I welcome your thoughts.

> Please do not get yourself arrested to make a statement. I suggest
> you take a course in civil rights and government. Your kid(s) will
> be embarrassed by this.  

... Again, that is why the NonViolent Action preparation is so
If I was going to the Federal Building to call the Senator a jerk for
not responding or making a scene about how my former spouse or other
people have acted, it would be an 'embarassment'.

I am there because I love my Son very, very much and want to
demonstrate to others that we need Civil Rights protection. I'm
willing to peacefully sacrifice my freedom to demonstrate the depth of
my convictions -- hardly embarassing?

-- Bonnie responds to the above:

> Just checking my mail.  Thanks again. I'm in 7th Heaven now because
> my girls are with me with me now...ju\ st waiting for the New Year
> to come in.
> I pray you have a safe and happy New Year. Good Luck.  My youngest
> (10 yrs old) just asked what I was do\ ing.  I explained I was
> sending you an email, that we are all involved in a project and it's
> nationwide. \ I explained you will be meeting with Hilary Clinton
> and she replied, "Cool, maybe he can get her autogr\ aph".

--- Donald R. Schropp <>

> Has anyone tried videotaping your "protests"?  Getting that footage
> on the news, or websites, could have an impact.
> Nikki's Father,
[ very nice picture of Donald and Nikki at bottom of the page - Ed]

Well, I had some folks outside the building that did tape some
activity.  But I never got it from them -- it may not have turned out?
Right now, just getting other people there (with our without a
camcorder) is a challenge -- but that could change at any time.

--- Jan <>

> I am so sorry about you and so many of you who cannot experience the
> joys of fatherhood and more importantly "parenthood" So many women
> are affected by this ugliness in the courts as well.

> I will not set aside my hatred of the judiciary and the courts. That
> is what drives me and so many others. In order to implement change,
> you must have a vengeance or hatred or it will not be a DRIVE.

> I will never stop until my family court judge's head is put on the
> legislative, executive and judicial stomping block.  He will have to
> answer to the clause "endangering the welfare of a minor" and so
> will other "government agencies" such as DYFS here in NJ.

> My story like so many others is tragic and you dont just walk away
> from it.  To take action you must HATE.  It is hate that drives them
> to destroy families and they are even taught hate on how to destroy
> families and keep the "hate" going against spouses.

> I am sorry but I will never relinquish my hate as I may as well
> crawl up and die.

Yes, you do need a drive.  As I left my Son (and he was in tears at
the end of our visit) -- I was very, very angry at the insane system
that allows this type of 'crap' to happen.  Very few people in the
system actually cared, we were just processed.  My former spouse has
played the system to the max and had lawyers willing to help her.  It
is a disgrace.

But do I HATE them?  No.  But do I disagree with what they did - yes.
Were some of their actions illegal/wrong - yes.  But do they still
deserve to be treated with dignity, respect, and compassion -- yes.
And if I am a person of Faith, I must also see them as a potential
brother or sister -- which again, still means what they did is wrong
and deserves punishment.

Our big problem is the 'system' and the laws that we all allowed to be
put into place. Unfortunately, most of us didn't really care about
what was going on until we were affected...  It is a Civil Rights
issue and that is why NonViolent action is a very effective method
here (http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm) If you have time,
please check the above link and let me know what you think about the
examples there?

> Feel the pain and burn inside and let that drive you.

Honestly, that may be a very poor motivator for the long haul.  There
is certainly no shortage of hatred out there directed toward other
people -- but it is not helping get real participation and turn out at
events?  We have a GREAT positive motivator in the love we have for
our kids, but we need to focus toward a common goal and Civil Rights
protection for families may do that?

> May God protect you in prison. How long will you stay there?  Never
> give up but I do hope you have followers with you. So many others
> are cowards as they dont want to stand beside you for fear of jail
> time as well.

I never really know how long jail will be.  I think most people on the
list would agree that if we could get just another mother and father
to join me outside her office and accept arrest -- it would get
publicity and 'encourage' her to meet with parents on the issue (and
maybe start a national dialog on the issue of family rights).  But
people are afraid.  Again, I think 'anger' is a good motivator for
acts of violence (we have plenty of examples of that today) -- but for
acts of genuine personal sacrifice, love is required...

> The way we are going to implement change is to have or see this
> happen with movie stars or get them with money who can fund events.
> Song writers and reactionaries like Speilburg and Springsteen must
> get into the picture.  We must EXPOSE the walls of injustice and on
> that note, I take you to what someone sent to me which I pray God
> happens more and more frequently.

It would be a great help if a 'big name' got involved.  But that does
not excuse the lack of individual action.  Our words are very lofty --
but our actions are not quite consistent with that?

-- Jan replies to the above:

> Just so you know, I am not going to jail. My teenagers lied as so
> many teens lied to be with their father which was not to be with
> their father but to have "things" and expensive toys and to be left
> alone for days on end while my sons drink and steel drugs under the
> care of the once non custodial parent while all the time, they lied
> in order to have that freedom to the judge about their mother and I
> dont forgive. If they are cited with purgery while I move with this
> process against hte father and judge for endangering the welfare of
> a minor than so be it.  Since my children have been with the father,
> they have moved back 3 times always stating I am never going back
> there because they have been abused physically emotionall and
> psychologically, but always being bribed to go back and especially
> the older one who is bribed because he needs the car that the father
> bought and I dont have the means and then the olderone who is 19
> bribes the younger one who just turned 15.
> I am sick of these games because I live 3 miles away and when the
> father moved so close to me, nothing but HELL insued starting in
> 2002. Anyway I will proceed on impeaching this judge before NJ
> Congress and continuing my federal lawsuit and my state appeal to
> get my kids returned regardless of age and regardless of what they
> say. 

> If they feel that way about a loving mother who did nothing but cook
> homemade meals and take care of their endless needs, they need
> THERAPY. I will NOT stand by and let them hang me or put me out to
> dry before a hateful x spouse and vengeful judge who aligns himself
> and has aligned himself for 10 years with the father ON
> EVERYTHING. I am prepared to stand up for my rights and to go to the
> press if I have to.

5. Child Support - it is NOT about the money.

--- "deborah linde" <> 

> I cannot agree with you more, all of the tragedy's inflicted by
> wrongful child support laws should never happen in the first place!
> Child support laws are based on the false premise that most parents
> would willfully neglect their child. Current family law is
> contradictory in nature, because the law enforces and manipulates a
> divided family and enforces the physical, social and emotional
> neglect of the child and parent, treating the target parent like the
> welfare office and enforces their neglect of the child, in an
> inhuman and often violent and punitive manner, AS YOUR SACRIFICES

> The contradiction and travesty of the child support laws is that by
> their own design they are destructive to the psychological and
> social foundational development of the child that they are supposed
> to help.  The sad statistics concerning the ramifications of a
> divided family structure is evident with the high proportion of
> children with societal and developmental problems raised in single
> parent households. In this sense, there is direct evidence that
> child support laws hurt the children involved, and thus are harmful
> to society. Everyone loses when laws are corrupt....

> A child has no way of telling a court system that they need both
> parents, especially at young ages when they need their parent the
> most.  The overwhelming sad statistics speak for themselves. The
> laws must be changed! Kids need more rights!

> Your sacrifices are significant because they shed a discerning light
> on a very corrupt court system.

> Your newsletter, also, gave me hope at a very low time, with the
> knowledge that other people care enough about the current
> situations, to demonstrate in your respect. With this knowledge, I
> continued to be strong, preparing and hoping for the day when I
> could again be with my children. You helped me and my child in this
> way.

> You are doing some good somewhere, with your sacrifices and
> efforts. I just wish I had the patience to know child support laws
> someday might truly benefit the children they are supposed to help,
> and will change someday accordingly, and had the answer required for
> the change.

> Please continue (being careful to protect yourself), and let us be
> confident in the fact that there is strength in numbers, knowledge
> and common sense.

6. A criminal - still a parent?
Last, but not least -- the following message raises a very important
question and helps define reform?


> I strongly disagree that an incarcerated parent who has committed a
> heinous crime such as murder should be allowed the same "right's" as
> others to be a part of their child's life.  In situations such as
> this one, even if the child wants to visit with the parent and even
> if the child is the age of 12-15, the custodial parent should have
> the right to protect the child from entering that type of an
> environment.  This Act does not have exception's that should be
> considered when special situations such as the example above occur.
> How can something like this truly be in the best interest of the
> child?  Why should a prisoner be allowed the right to visit with
> their child if they can't even make proper decisions regarding their
> own life?  How can the other parent ever feel comfortable allowing
> their child to enter an establishment such as this?

> This Act violates a custodial parents right to protect their child
> and do what they feel is in the best interest of their child!  I was
> told by an attorney that there is an assumption that adequate
> supervision occurs in jail/prison.  If this is true then how do
> people that are incarcerated ever have the opportunity to commit
> other offenses/crimes while they are incarcerated?  This Act needs
> some changes made to it for certain situations such as this one.  In
> my opinion, allowing the child to visit the parent whom is
> incarcerated for a heinous crime would do more damage to the child
> in the future, than simply protecting the child from that type of
> environment and not allowing visitation to that parent.  > Monica -
> Nov. 2004

You bring up some good points.  As you say in the Act there is a
presumption that both parents are equal parents unless one is
convicted of an act regarding harm to the children.  If someone has
committed a crime, they are separated due to incarceration for what
they did (and as punishment for what they did) -- but then what?  They
are still parents and should have their ability to be an equal parent
restored?  Their penalty was jail, not being banished from family?  I
appreciate what you say about poor decision making -- but if that was
a criteria for being a parent, where would we be?

I assume you do not smoke -- but what if you had that 'habit' and
smoked in the home, exposing you kids to second hand smoke.  You are
not acting with malintent, but without a doubt you are shortening
their lives -- should we take your children away?

I assume you do not drink or to excess.  But in a one time incident
you had one too many and got caught DWI with the kids in the car --
your kids get taken away?  How can we ever trust you again?

I should think you are still a parent in these two scenarios?  But I
would appreciate your thoughts and some specific examples, it is in
specific different scenarios that the theory comes into practice.

AKidsRight.Org                    "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"

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