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Your FEEDBACK on the FRA & NonViolent Action

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From: Webmaster (kids-right) (
Date: Fri Jan 18 2002 - 10:06:10 EST

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Good People,

Most of this message is about FEEDBACK we have received from you
during the past weeks:

1. Commentary on the Family Right Act - what do you say?
2. The "experiment" in NonViolent Action - can you help?
3. Murtari Update - unusual goings on?

1. Commentary on the Family Right Act - what do you say?
Here is some thoughtful feedback on the FRA, see the current draft at:
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm -- the quotes from the Act are
preceded by ">", your comments are in brackets [ ].  We welcome your

=======  Roger - -- comments on FRA (Family Rights

> the American people to realize the birth and raising of a child is
> an important decision that is not to be taken lightly and which will
> place them (whether they like it or not) in proximity to the other
> parent for many years.  [That the ideas of equal parenting time and
> equal parental access, in spite of the inconvenience of a
> geographical proximity, should be a right which should maintained
> and not be abridged by or interfered with by the court unless
> extreme circumstances exist. ]

 Yes -- now current definition of the "extreme circumstance" is
being found Unfit to Parent, a demonstrated threat to your child.

>  the States to institute programs in parenting and marriage and to
> encourage attendance in pre-marriage classes before a Marriage
> License is granted.  [This is dangerous in that it can be taking the
> place of the church?]

 Yes, maybe this needs to be changed.  This is a free country,
you should not be forced into taking any classes -- but, we have a lot
of social services we offer as a community.  As a taxpayer, I may not
mind the idea that if you decide you want to ignore some type of
marriage preparation, that is fine -- but if it all goes bad -- don't
expect money from my wallet?  Is this to severe?

>  The term "speedy trial" means that if a parent is charged with
> misconduct which results in a "temporary" order either limiting
> access to their home or to their children -- they have the right to
> be brought to trial on the charges within 60 days.  [what about
> temporary custody orders.....need real, incontrovertible evidence of
> harm that shows children should be placed with a parent.  And how
> would that be decided....judge or judge and jury?  Besides, one's
> rights may be diminished.]

 Yes,... the trigger of an early trial date will
normally force a Judge to be more careful in issuing that type of
order -- since then the system has to jump through a few "hoops" to
prove their case to 12 people, beyond a reasonable doubt.  E.g.  if it
is really a serious issue, they will do it, if not -- they will let it

> Regarding Legal Custody. Unless a parent is found "Unfit to Parent",
> there shall be JOINT legal custody of children between the
> parents. Both parents shall be aware of what is going on in their
> children's lives.  If there is disagreement regarding a decision
> which must be made: One parent will have the "tie breaking" vote for
> the year. That authority will alternate each year.  [I don't think
> this will work]

 I have known "contentious" couples where this has worked.
Without it, one of you can be left in the blind about what is
happening with the child, e.g. authorize serious medical treatment
with no knowledge given to the other...  Please let me know if you
have any alternatives?

> [my kids were never questioned, and I was told that the judge would
> listen to them.  I wanted the judge to hear from them, but no
> opportunity was given to me.  If divorce is inevitably going to be
> presumptuously "litigated" in these family courts, the children
> should have a right to be heard.]

 This is another contentious one.  Giving the child the very
idea that they control which parent they see and how much -- it is
devastating with a teenager and it can't help but encourage one parent
to "help" the child see the faults of the other.  Let me know if you
have more feedback on this.  My Son is now 8 (but even if he was 15)
and said I don't want to see Mom anymore, I don't love her -- that is
still his Mother and life doesn't work that way.  Unless she is really
a threat to him...

=========== Betty James -

> ...[ I suggest you put the Surgeon General into your loop, he is most
> likely the one to originate your legislation.]

 This is the basic difference.  My relationship with my child
is NOT a health care issue.  I have a God given right to nurture my
own child and before the "state" can interfere and impose its "good
intentions", I believe they have to prove me a "threat" to my child's
safety, and I get the protection a civil jury.  Substituting power
from a Judge to a Doctor is not going to make that big a
difference. We just need to curb the ability of society to come
charging into our private lives -- the same way we already do with
criminal matters.

2. The "experiment" in NonViolent Action - can you help?
There has been quite a bit of activity at the Syracuse Federal
Building this month.  For background see:

=========== Kirstin - (on being charged falsely)

> Your side issue of malicious prosecution is not side at all. It is
> the essence of civil rights violations, shutting you up, you need to
> act on that more than your focus issue, and not say another word
> until you have garnered the support of the ACLU. Let the big guns
> come in. It's a good time to conduct yourself quietly for a few
> months, getting your ACLU type ducks in order. It would be a BIG
> step in the right direction for the cause you so wish to assert. I
> really think this is a good next step for the whole thing, because
> the whole thing is designed to shut up the dissenters.

 Have tried to get some ACLU involvement, but no response at
all. You are certainly welcome to try.  I actually know a couple of
lawyers who are members of the local ACLU and there is just no
interest.  It appears that family law reform may be politically

 The goal of NonViolent Action is a willingness to demonstrate
personal sacrifice.  To the extent they begin to use really false
allegations, it makes it all the easier.

===========  Dennis -

> Comments:: Great job John!! This is interesting to me as I thought
> you could only picket outside of a building. I would like very much
> to have ther legal citeing on this case. I assume it is federal?
> Thanks, Spike

 I encourage you to really look at the web site, and the Events
page, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/events.htm

 Don't really have a court case to give since I am not there
"picketting", "demonstrating", "protesting" -- and all the images
those words bring to mind.  Those things would not be allowed.  I'm
there to petition my government representatives for reform.  Since,
right now, they won't have us in their offices, I/we are quietly
walking outside in the hallways.

 With the proper attitude I think you could do it in any
Federal Building, but it is at some cost (as the web page above will
show). The "right" is there, but it takes a little effort....

 I will be going back next week and fully expect to be arrested
again -- but we'll see what happens.  The whole purpose of this is
publicity, and to get some newspaper/TV coverage that would raise
public interest and encourage the Senators to seriously examine the
issue.... But it sure would be a lot easier with more than one person!

========== Susie -

> I hope you keep up the good work.  You are getting to them.
> Otherwise, they wouldn't be harrassing you like they are.  Thank you
> for fighting for all of us.  I wish you well with your son Dominic.

========== Linda - (You and the group aren't helping at all. Frauds.)

> Dear Mr. Murtari: After talking to you on the telephone, talking to
> my friends and counselor, I have decided, that I request you take my
> article off Hall of Shame.  I have been trying to decifer what you
> said to me, and it is very clear.  You are not pro kids rights, you
> are Pro fathers rights.

> Not every situation is about putting a family back together again.
> You are viery bitter about your relationship with your ex-spouse,
> that was very evident to me in our phone conversation.  You said
> yourself, that you two do not speak to each other.  And I find it
> very interesting that you would go to jail rather than pay child
> support (a typical narcissitic), this is all about you isn't it
> Mr. Murtari?

> I'm sure you do have a wonderful relationship with your child, and I
> am happy for you, but it isn't like that with everyone, yet you
> appear to think it is.  And this sexual abuse thing, you keep
> bringing that up which gives me cause to be concerned about your
> site.  There was never a mention of sexual abuse in my case and I
> felt that you were out of line by repeating it several times, it was
> almost as if you were obsessed with this sexual abuse. I feel that
> this organization you are using as kids rights is a front really for
> father's rights!!!  It is clearly evident by our conversation.

> Why are you putting so much pressure on Hillary Clinton to agree
> with you?  What would that do for you?  Yes, I agree the courts
> intervene way too much, but the courts do not protect these kids,
> look at your letters that you receive, this is proof in the pudding.
> I don't feel after talking to you that you protect the children
> either and want no part of it.  Please remove my article.

> These fathers and mothers that abuse their children need to fess up
> to what they have done and then maybe the healing can begin...
> there is just too many people out there like you trying to hurt the
> ex-spouse by withholding support, being vindictive and doing what
> they can to make everyones life miserable.  It is like a goal for
> people like you.  You are not open to listen to the otherside, this
> was very-very-very apparent in our phone conversation.  Everytime I
> said something, rather than listen, you had a comeback.  Why are you
> so bitter?

        For some background on the "dead beat" parent, which may not
have been seen by Linda, see http://www.AKidsRight.Org/support_jm.htm

3. Murtari Update - unusual goings on?
John returned to the building and went to the 13th floor (Congressman
Walsh). He walked for a few minutes and was then stopped by a Federal
Police Officer who told him to stop his action or more tickets would
be issued.  John said he would not, and he was ordered to follow him
to the downstairs [A Letter was
sent to official regarding the incident the next day, see the site
for details]  He plans on returning to the building on Tuesday, the day
after Martin Luther King Day (your help/participation is welcome):

"After we got down to the office I was normally used to the routine of
being searched and being told to sit for a while until the Syracuse PD
showed up.  Today, I sat down and after a bit of a phone conference I
was told I was free to leave the building, but could not go
upstairs. I was not charged with any violations.  I told them I did
not want to leave the building.  They said "okay" and I continued to
wait.  After about an hour I realized something was different.  I
finally asked the officer what they planned on doing -- he said
nothing right now, you can leave anytime -- but you can't go upstairs.

At that point I figured they might just wait  till 5pm when the
building closed, then ask me out and lock the door....  This was
something new and I decided to leave on time to catch a bus to the
office.  It appears they are willing to just wait me out...."

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