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[AKidsRight.Org] Hearings in PA/ Good, Average, Poor - EQUAL parents?/ Your FEEDBACK

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From: AKidsRight.Org Webmaster (
Date: Tue Jul 27 2004 - 15:59:48 EDT

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Good People & People of Faith,

This message contains info on:

1. Pennsylvannia hearings on Joint Custody (Aug 24) - Be there!
2. Good, Average or Poor Parent - All EQUAL parents?
3. Your FEEDBACK - on EQUAL parenting and Father's day.

We are now all caught up on your FEEDBACK. 

Many of us marvel at the bitter attitudes some parent's have about the
system and reform.  The goal is "money" or "revenge" -- but not their
kids?  Why?  Perhaps because for many they were so alienated their
last experience was a child running away, crying  - or swearing at
them and saying "I never want to see you again!!!!!"

Is there a knife that cuts deeper?  Many of you have been cut by that
knife.  Talk about something we want to forget!  How can I want to be
an EQUAL parent -- my child hates me..... they are GONE....

As a group we know that isn't a "given" -- that with some Faith, and
Hope, and Love there can be a day when that child comes jumping into
our arms.  No guarantee, no sure thing -- but a chance.  Life.

1. Pennsylvannia hearings on Joint Custody (Aug 24) - Be there!
[If your group would like to have us announce an upcoming event,
please complete the submission form at:
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/events.htm -Ed.]

--- "Ms.Denise D.Simpson" <>

The date is set, and the time is here! To take the day trip to

PA House Hearing on Joint Custody Bill HB 2041
August 24, 2004
10:00 a.m.
Harrisburg, PA
Please email me and I will keep the list of who is going. As Kevin
makes the arrangements and get them to me I will forward them on to
you. However if you have specific question on the Bill please contact

If you have not contacted the Judiciary committee by now? you still
have time to do so before the date to show your support.  Should you
need those contacts email me and I will get them out to you ASAP.

Come one, come all and show the House Judiciary Committee how
important this bill is to Pennsylvania families.  The domestic
violence representatives and the Bar Association will be witnesses to
testify against the bill.
Kevin Sheahen
Greater Pittsburgh Chapter of NCFC

Denise D.Simpson, 
PresidentCooperative Parenting for Divided FamiliesDirector/Group Coordinator, 
Cooperative Parenting Groups'Initiative's

2. Good, Average or Poor Parent - All EQUAL parents?
What do you think about that line?  What if I'm a GOOD parent and my
spouse is an objectivly POOR parent -- don't I get MORE time with the
kids?  Isn't that in their "best interest?"

Remember, we are NOT talking aboud a BAD parent, someone who is
actively trying to hurt their kids.

The proposed Family Rights Act, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm,
says they should all be EQUAL.

Is that proposition, that we should recognize Good, Average, or Poor
Parents as EQUAL parents, an essential part of any significant reform

Also, reword the same thing as: above average parent, average parent,
and below average parent?  Should they be EQUAL?  When you and your
spouse split and your personalities and skills are identical, but your
spouse has a BETTER job and MORE education and MORE musical talents
and MORE athletic abilty -- are they deserving of MORE time with the

We welcome your thoughts and FEEDBACK on this critical question.

3. Your FEEDBACK - on EQUAL parenting and Father's day.

==== HAPPY Father's Day Greeting
Complete message at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2004/0023.html
Excerpt below following Teri's message:

--- Teri <>

> This part is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Teri

We all join in prayer for a happy resolution to the pain we have all
experienced, and most of all for our children.  And perhaps, one
special item to keep in mind, is that we always anticipate a "change
of heart" with our former partner that will allow us both to
participate in the lives of our children.

To get rid of crutch, "they'll never change."
To remove the excuse, "it was ALL there fault."
To stop nursing on, "I was the victim."

No, we don't expect you to both fall madly in love again, but:

To remember, "they are a good person."
To acknowledge, "they are my childs ONLY other parent."
To hope, "they will forgive me for what I did."
To forgive.

Yes, it sounds like pretty crazy, pie-in-the-sky stuff, but we also
know, "nothing is impossible with God."

--- "Ed Stokes" <>

> Very well put

---  "marilyn trevino" <>

> im a MOM ~ (upper case) but warmed by your universal facts, asserted
> herein.

--- "paula shick" <>

> Amen.



--- Kinley <>

> Thanks for the Father's Day greeting and newsletter.  All I got for
> Father's Day so far is it and a call soliciting my blood donation.
> I wasn't able to spend my day with my daughter.

--- Susan Schwenzfeger <>

> By the way, there are no orders barring you from seeing your
> children, just your children who know and remember what you did.

> Cut the garbage and acknowledge what you have done to your own children.

--- RM J <>

> God bless you, webmaster.
> God bless each of you, fathers, mothers and all the children you
> love (and who love you); I pray that your hearts and eyes stay open.
> Strive to be part of the healing, not the continued hurt.  Remember,
> children deserve to be allowed to love their families.
> God bless each of you who may have 'forgotten' that a child NEEDS
> both parents to be healthy.  May you find the peace you need in your
> life, and may your hearts and eyes open to seeing the damage done
> when children are put in the middle of a war between their parents
> and families.
> May God bless and protect all right and needed change.  Know that
> "With God, all things are possible."
> Rose Johnson, for IJAA and Candidate for Idaho Legislature
> http://www.IJAA.Net/





Sorry to hear about not seeing your child for years!  That is an
injustice and an indignity and we are trying to change that.  Brian,
that last line is the most important part of your message.  That is
what people need to hear.

The rest of your message, what can I say, crap? You think your are the
ONLY parent that has been torn up by the system or attempted suicide? 
I spent a day lobbying legislators with a guy that had a deep scar
across his neck!  He had two lovely daughter's he got cut off from --
but I'm sure he wasn't ABUSED LIKE YOU....

I know other CLOWNS who want to "START BLOWING UP COURT HOUSES", heh,
a lot of them are in Iraq!  Are you going to make sure there are no
children there before it blows! Maybe you will be a conscientous
terrorist!  Maybe other parents who lose their kids will then feel
your pain. THAT will make things better????

Brian, I'm a no B.S. kind of guy.  I have been through it myself and
it is a disgusting, awful, demeaning system that makes parents act
like pigs to win.  That guy I knew realized that violence (and
violence against yourself) is a dead end and act of NO Faith.  I have
voluntarily sacrificed jail time to demonstrate how bad it is and I
have more coming.  That is NonViolent Action, and it is real, and it
works -- check out http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm

But if takes Faith that things can change, and I have a lot of Faith
in that.  I don't have to demonstrate "hate" to make people know how
bad the system is, just show how much I "love" my son and back it up
with real sacrifice.

You are welcome to call me below. I'd love to hear your story and what
happened with your child. If you wish you are welcome to post it at
our Hall of Shame page, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/shame.htm

Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) 

--- Rob <>

> I appreciate your effort to bring some semblance of optimism to a
> desperately negative situation.
> I have not seen my children for 12 years. After a long battle to try
> to accept and deal with the weekend dad constraints imposed by our
> justice system, I had to give up for the good of the kids. I dont
> know for sure why this woman did whatever she could to try to
> prevent me from having a good relationship with my children but she
> did and the predictable results ensued. I could have toughed it out
> and fought her efforts with my own nasty schemes but felt, after
> extensive counseling with more than one counselor, unfortunately not
> involving her or the kids because she would not allow it, that, it
> was better for us all if I bowed out. . . 
> I did not like how she treated me but I did love those parts of her
> that were lovable. She is a smart, strong and brave person who can
> be loving and affectionate. She put an amazing effort in saving my
> daughter's life when she was stricken with Cancer at the age of
> four. That was a living hell for us. Not only because my daughter
> was about to die from one day to the next but because my wife took
> it all out on me. It much have been just as difficult for her to
> believe that I caused this tragedy as it was for me to feel that she
> blamed me for it. I had to be strong and absorb that pain while I
> was trying to fend off bankruptcy. She had to remain together for
> the child's sake. She accused me of never doing enough to help deal
> with it.  I learned to live with that.

> The child lived and a year later, when a close father figure was
> dying of cancer, she fought, often in front of the kids because she
> felt that I was spending too much time with his family. She had an
> affair then and let me know that she was doing it just to dig the
> knife in a little deeper. I was so screwed up by then that I could
> not deal with all of it. I pleaded with her to stop what she was
> doing and let us have some peace so I could deal with my dying
> father. The kids were traumatized by it all, crying all the time and
> acting out their fears and insecurity. Nothing stopped her assault,
> she was relentless. When I could not take it any longer, I left. She
> invited this fellah to stay in our home just two weeks after I was
> gone . . .

> My problem now is that the kids are older and still living with her
> and I cant see how to get them back. They hate me of course and
> blame me for everything. I dont want to let them know what I think
> about this tragedy.  There is no way to get close to them. I try to
> communicate by letter but never get a response. If I call they hang
> up. If I try to be nice to her, she repels me with more abuse which
> just makes me feel worst.

> I have lost hope. The worst part about this is that, I dont believe
> in God but she does. Can you see the irony in that. The very fact
> that I am under attack by a person who is directed by a God presence
> in her life. Where she is capable of and will be as cruel as she was
> and is, does not encourage me to have faith in God. . . 

> Where are the children left in all of this. How have they been
> raised? What do they believe? . . .

> I think of them every day and refuse to forget them. I owe them that
> much. I truly believe that I will never recover from the pain that
> exists in the depths, the very foundation of my being. It affects
> everything I do and how I respond to the world form an emotional
> point of view. My mother used to tell me that stuff I did as a child
> broke her heart. I did not realize what a broken heart was back then
> but I do now. Imagination cannot replicate the reality of loosing
> one's children.

> I was listening to Ray Charles the other day and came across this
> song which stuck in my mind. Its called "If I could" (See below)
> . . .

 > If I could - I'd protect you from the sadness in your eyes
 > Give you courage in a world of compromise, Yes, I would
 > If I could - I would teach you all the things I've never learned
 > And I'd help you cross the bridges that I've burned, Yes, I would
 > If I could - I would try to shield your innocence from time
 > But the part of life I gave you isn't mine,
 > I've watched you grow, So I could let you go
 > If I could - I would help you make it through the hungry years
 > But I know that I can never cry your tears, But I would, If I could
 > If I live - In a time and place where you don't want to be
 > You don't have to walk along this road with me,
 > My yesterday, Won't have to be your way
 > If I knew - I'd have tried to change the world I brought to you to
 > And there isn't very much that I can do, But I would, If I could
 > If I could - I would try to shield your innocence from time
 > But the part of life I gave you isn't mine
 > I've watched you grow, So I could let you go
 > If I could - I would help you make it through the hungry years
 > But I know that I can never cry your tears
 > But I would, If I could
 > Yes I would, Yes I would
 > If I could

Thanks for a powerful story, VERY sorry to hear what happened and I
can appreciate the torture you have been through.  Sorry to hear you
haven't seen you kids for 12 years and just gave up -- and hide under
the excuse "it was best for them" -- you have a lot of Company!

You spent a lot of time on your former spouse -- but you can't control
her actions, or the system's actions -- we have all we can do to
control our own actions, and you chose OUT.  Any wonder the kids are

YOu can't control your kid's feelings either, but let them know you
love them and let them know walking away was the stupidist thing you
ever did and you'll never be able to take it back (and please don't
blame the system or your former spouse for your walk away).  AND, at
some point when they see all your love, there is a hope of renewal and
love between you and them again!  Yes, I have seen that happen -- but
nothing happens if you don't try.

Rob, please don't think I am trying to "rip" you or put you down.
Your former spouse did awful things and the "system" is absolutely
insane, it forces good loving parents like YOU to walk away from their
kids and some commit suicide!  I'll keep you in my thoughts the next
time I'm outside the offices of Senator Clinton.

Regarding, "If I could" -- you CAN.  No, you can't force changes in
the people around you. But you CAN act in a manner consistent with
bringing those changes.

==== EQUAL Parenting

--- "Harry Braunschweiler" <> Council For Status
    of Men, Canada

> This may be of interest to you.  Same problem just diffrent gender.
> Turning the child to not want time with the other parent is
> development deprivation.  Normal development is affected becuase of
> false intervention. 

--- Donna <>

> A single mom here with custody.. and no input at all from the
> father.  Oh, he says he loves the child but can't help feed her,
> clothe her or any of the other things that she requires to be
> healthy and happy.  I gladly do for her as I have since I carried
> her inside my body.  She isn't a puppy to be pulled between parents
> she is a human being with feelings and needs. Would my life and my
> child's life be easier with financial help from my ex?  Of course it
> would.  Is it worth the fighting and upset of my child to demand it?
> NO.  I want my child to love her Dad, to be happy when thinking of
> and spending time with him.  I do wish however that his love moved
> from just feelings and words into actions to help take care of her.
> I see a lot of parents use children as tools to vent their anger and
> pain on each other.. Shameful to put children through that mess.  I
> will not fight and fuss with my ex.  I will take care of my childs
> needs as a parent who loves her child.  Many times when I have had
> to tell her no to something she wanted due to having bills that had
> to be paid.. it was so hard and being a child she doesn't understand
> how money is what is needed to pay for things.  How wonderful to be
> able to provide my daughter more "things".. but what she most needs
> she gets.  And I have the joy of putting her to bed at night knowing
> in her heart she is loved and cared for by her parents.  I don't
> make comments about how "daddy doesn't etc".  I see no reason for
> such as that.

> Just my thoughts.
Thanks for sharing a refreshing attitude!  Your child is lucky to have
you both.

--- Sharon <>

> I believe I must be on the wrong site. I HAVE custody of my
> children, their Father has visitation. That normally, would be
> fine. No Parent can be 100 % all of the time, we all have troubles
> in our daily living,and life goes on.  It is , or should be accepted
> that folks remarry, and continue with their lives and each
> individual choice should be respected on their own merit.

> This is necessary for the well being of all children of
> divorce. Now, one may lag behind, have difficulties, but it really
> doesn't mean it is all bad, it is only human. I used to believe all
> of that, and still do. To an extent.  My ex - husband ( and this is
> not a trashing event. ) Has convinced my eldest child of 13 that I
> am a demon. She is certain that she lives with the Devil. She feels
> the need to kill herself to purge herself. Now, something is
> terribly wrong here. I have read notes from him telling her that I
> am "unpure" and the only way out is death or prayer.  She believes
> this, and Happy Fathers Day, is with him at this moment. ( Court
> scheduled visit.)  Doesn't my child have the right to an unfettered
> fearless life ?

> Doesn't she have the right to live and love the same as all else ?
> There is no "equal parenting " going on here. My eldest child
> refuses to see him. He is frightened, and it is looking bad all the
> way around. He has been in counseling for the last 3 years. I work
> very hard to ensure they know at least who their Father is. This has
> been to the detriment of both of the kids.  Where does one go ?
> Sharon
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but good to hear from and
sorry about your situation, that your daughter thinks you are a DEVIL
and that your son is scared of his father.  Regarding where to go, I
am sure it is not a courtroom -- like you say life goes no after a
split and it is also natural that neither spouse is going to have
great thoughts about the other (all it takes is one to spoil that).

We hate to see it turn into a popularity contest or to give the kids
the feeling they have the power to deterimine if they will even see
mom or dad (especially when they are teens). EQUAL contact with both
of you allows the child to see you both, your strength and your
failings and how to live with it.  We often think about the effect
parents have on children -- but we miss the equally great effect
caring for a child has on a parent.  We change over time also.

>From what you say, I don't think either of you is a threat to the kids
intentionally.  Your former spouse sounds super-religious, and even
sounds like a good friend of mine who I think is a little too
"conservative".  Would I want to see my child raised by my friend, NO.
But if he had children, should he be blocked from raising his own
kids, NO.

> Doesn't my child have the right to an unfettered fearless life ?
I think you know the answer here, NO.  Life is just not that way. It
is not a computer program.  We have many obligations that tie us, and
those of family are some of the greatest.  We also have many
fears. Those are realities.  We grow by accepting them, they are parts
of life.  Certainly you have experience fetters and fears in your
life, as have I.  I don't want my Son to go through what I did, we try
to "block it", but perhaps the best thing to show is how we cope with
life and live life and enjoy life -- in spite of all that.
> Doesn't she have the right to live and love the same as all else ?

Yes, of course.  Your son doesn't HAVE to love his dad.  Your daughter
doesn't HAVE to love you. But while they are children, YOU BOTH are
their parents -- whether you are GOOD, AVERAGE or POOR.  Your daughter
needs steady contact with you, you son needs steady contact with your
former spouse -- not a counselor!

The only thing that should STOP contact is when you act with malintent
too seriously harm your kids (and you should have JURY protection
before being found guilty of that).

Sharon, I welcome your thoughts on this and will share them with the
group. What you bring up are important items.

Webmaster                              AKidsRight.Org
webmaster@AKidsRight.Org               "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
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