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[AKidsRight.Org] Reaching Senator Clinton: Murtari arrested / Your FEEDBACK

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From: AKidsRight.Org Webmaster (
Date: Fri Jan 21 2005 - 15:11:55 EST

Good People & People of Faith,

This message contains information on:

1. Murtari arrested - no chalk writing allowed!
2. Your HELP for John - please call/fax the Senator.
3. Your FEEDBACK - on approaching Senator Clinton

1. Murtari arrested - no chalk writing allowed!
Johh Murtari had asked for ideas earlier on how to proceed (many of
you responded with your thoughts, below). Another engineer at his
office came up with the idea of using chalk to write a message on the
ground!  It seemed to meet all the requirements for NonViolent Action
and it 'felt right.'

John returned to the Syracuse Federal Building Thursday and was again
refused entry. He then took a piece of children's sidewalk chalk and
began to write on the ground in front of the building:

"Senator Clinton - Please help us! - AKidsRight.Org"

He was taken into custody and charged with damaging government
property with graffiti.  He was arraigned by US Magistrate Judge
George Lowe and released with another Court appearance scheduled for
Monday at 2PM (John hopes to have an attorney present).  He plans on
returning to the building on Tuesday, Jan 25th at 2PM, to continue the

To HELP, please take the time to call/fax the Senator (her contact
info follows below). It only takes a few minutes and it will make a
big difference.  Some people on the list have extensive legal
experience, the BLOG at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/actionc_syr has
copies of the tickets -- John would welcome any case law regarding
writing with simple chalk on the ground in a public area.

There were no other parents at the building with John when this
happened.  You are welcome to come and watch next Tuesday.  If you
think you might have time to drop by, please contact John directly at
jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org -- and check the web site for times in case
there is a last minute change.  He looks forward to meeting you!

2. Your HELP for John - please call/fax the Senator.
Please send a fax or make a phone call to the Senator's offices both
in Washington and Syracuse.  They are paying attention to what is
going on here. The Senator is a member of the Senate Subcommittee on
Children and Families.

You don't have to be a resident of New York to call her offices.

Syracuse Local rep, Cathy Calhoun,
tel: 315-448-0470, fax: 315-448-0476

Washington Scheduling Office, Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor to the Senator),
tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121 

Most of all, you don't have to express anger. Just let her staff know
that you care about Civil Rights protection for families and the
Senator should meet with parent's groups regarding the need for
National reform...  Let them know being a parent is one of our
GREATEST rights. It needs official recognition and protection.

3. Your FEEDBACK - on approaching Senator Clinton
A LOT of FEEDBACK on what was planned.  For background see:

--- "Joseph Mates" <>

> I'm sitting here shaking my head. I really don't know what you
> should do. I am 3,000 miles away which makes it impossible for me
> participate.  I'm wondering if your efforts are making any progress
> or if another course of action might be more prudent. Any chance of
> getting a local news station or newspaper to cover your story? 
> Ms. Clinton will not pay attention until more people become
> involved. Right now, you're just a single nat that is annoying but
> not worthy of much attention. You need more nats!

Yes, more 'nats' are needed!  But everything starts with one person.
I made a personal committment to follow through on this and I'm going
to try to stick to it.  Actually, today I will try writing on the
group with chalk "Senator Clinton - Please help us! -"

--- "Ed Ward, MD" <>

> Yes, it amazes me that after they steal our children.  That somehow
> they think there is something worse that they could do to us.
> Everything after that is a downhill ride.  Oh, surely, we will hail
> fascism if they do this.
> You have been an awesome inspiration to me John.  My best thoughts
> and prayers are with you.  Waiting to do my thing here in LA.

--- "Barbara Townley" <>

> I admire your perseverance. But why do you focus on Clinton? Aren't
> there other Senators and Representatives you can try? I know she is
> high profile but she has always seemed very cold hearted to me and
> seems to feel that outsiders have a right to raise your children.

Well, she is my Senator from NY and she is obviously a focal point for
Children's issues in Congress.  Engaging her in a dialog about Family
Rights and when does government have the right to interfere would help
our efforts a lot.

If you look at our Legislative Action page,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/legislative.htm -- we have visited a lot of
Members (and you are encourage to visit your legislator -- we'd be
happy to add the results to this page and get folks to join you).

--- "Brenda Browning" <>

> No offense Mr. Murtari, but who is 'we' as it seems you are the only
> one at the Federal Building today?  Why do you appear to be
> resistant to other means as stated in your paragraph six?  I support
> your goal, but I'm confused about your approach, but will do more
> research on your sight to try and understand.

Yes, a good question.  I often wonder if I should say 'we', when it is
'me'?  BUt I have had a lot of people fax/call the Senator, over a
dozen have actually come by the building to see me and then dropped
something off at her office in person (which makes a big impact).

All those folks give me some 'teflon' and protection -- so I say 'we'
to reflect the many that are involved.

There are other valid approaches, but when you check the web site out
you will see the group is trying to demonstrate the powe of NonViolent
Action for reform. 

--- <>

> I hope this finds you well. I want you to know that I admire your
> efforts. I have written to Hillary on your behalf and have seriously
> contemplated driving from IL to NY to stand at your side. If I was
> closer I would have (I'm no stranger to the gerbil cage) but I know
> just the effort to get there is energy better spent. But now I am at
> the point where I will not write Hillary and I no longer support
> your efforts to meet her, though I do strongly support your efforts
> to be a parent. In a nutshell, I think it is wrong that we ask the
> government for something that is not theirs to give. It only leaves
> them with the impression that they have the right and I do not want
> to encourage that illusion.
> I am a strong proponant of nonviolent means and that is why I cannot
> willfully ask someone, even the government, to use force against
> anyone on my behalf. All laws are backed by armed force (your
> personal experience demonstrates this).

> I am not prepared to try to convince you of this approach myself. I
> am not qualified but I do know some men that are; Jesus, Leo Tolstoy
> and M.K. Gandhi. I want to especially point to Tolstoy's work, "The
> Kingdom of God is Within You" {1896}. This is a book that motivated
> Gandhi. The core of the book is the principle of nonviolent,
> nonresistnace to evil taught by Jesus. It is a most compelling
> argument and I hope that you consider checking it out.
> I would also be most willing to discuss the ideas involved. Here is
> an excerpt:
   > "... I know that I have no need of the administration or of
   > courts of justice founded upon force, and therefore I can take
   > no part in either.  I know that I do not need to attack and
   > slaughter other nations or to defend myself from them with arms,
   > and therefore I can take no part in wars or preperations for
   > wars. It may well be that there are people who cannot help
   > regarding all this as necessary and indispensible. I cannot
   > dispute the question with them, I can only speak for myself; but
   > I can only say with absolute certainty that I do not need it, and
   > that I cannot do it. And I do not need this and I cannot do it,
   > not because such is my own personal will, but because such is the
   > will of him who sent me into life, and gave me an indubitable law
   > for conduct through life." 

You have an interesting idea.  But if we are true to our Founding
Fathers the government is not "them" it is "us".  Family law has
gotten this way because many of us (me included) failed to get
involved when a lot of these crazy laws were being passed.

Any community has to have laws and customs to regulate behaviour for
the good of all.  Our Family Rights Act is not asking for more
government interference, but less in Family life -- the attempts to
'regulate' have gone too far in this area.

Nice quote from Tolstoy and a lot of good people feel as he does.

--- Samantha Anne <>

> John this Sam from MichDads the founder.. just as Idea.. rallys or
> protest for fathers, kids, NCP rights. I am sure you hear of
> you might send you info to them about your
> rally. They have put rally info hosted by many deffent groups in the
> past. Who knows they may have on for internview all there contact
> info on there site you wright Richar Farr or Jane Spies. So that
> more people know about this event for kids rights.. just an Idea,
> Sam

--- "Richard Doyle" <>

>> My lawyer friend told me I ought to stay away.  He didn't think
>> Senator Clinton would every meet with us. "Go back and start forming
>> a larger coalition," he said. He told me that I had my due process
>> and it was time to stop before the consequences became severe.

> John, that's the best advice anyone could give, or get.  From a
> lawyer, yet.  Except for the word "forming."  There are too many
> "coalitions" out there now, formed by militant individualists.  We
> will get nowhere until we swallow our egos, and start working
> together.  

> I think your admirable talents would be much better expended working
> toward ecumenism in our poor "movement."  BTW, I think your faith in
> Clinton is misplaced.  She'll NEVER go against the feminist
> overlords of her party.  Fraternally R F Doyle

THanks for the message and you are right about the coalitions, but I
think it just takes time.  To me the definition has to be EQUAL
parenting, and they have to prove you were a 'demonstrated' threat to
your kids with the protection of a jury.  I think the goal will define
itself by what people are willing to get out there to support it.

This is probably the best place for my 'talents' -- I like beating my
head against a wall!  It is easy to find folks to lobby, do court
stuff, etc....  but we also need folks willing to sacrifice.

Regarding Clinton, just getting a dialog with her makes this a
National Issue -- but I think we really have to come at it as
'parents'/mothers & fathers -- at least when it comes to Family Law
reform.  I know there are guys out there with other specifically male
issues, but to succeed this needs to be (and should be) parents.

Of course, as always, time will tell!

--- Tracy <>

> I am a second wife and have vowed to the day I die to do my part in
> changing the current system any way I can. So far it has cost me my
> job and almost my marriage. Long story.  Maybe being a man is part
> of the problem getting in. Try sending a woman in your place and see
> what happens? Just a thought. Keep fighting the good fight!  Tracey
> in Boise

You are right that this needs to be a 'parents' issue. When we have
made lobbying visits in the past we always try to go with mothers and
fathers.  Anyone who opposes reform always tries to turn it (very
easily) into a gender war

With another mother and father with me -- it would be easy.  I'm just
waiting for some folks to come forward!

--- Karen <>

> You Know Monday was Martin Luther Kings' birthday!  Well he was a
> great civil rights leader.  He won rights for all citizens not just
> the black people.  SO I believe if we had marches in the streets of
> every man woman and child who has ever been in a foster home or been
> taken away from their parents or had their children taken, we would
> be able to make a dent in all of this.  

> But until people are willing to make a stand, we will not get
> anywhere.  I am afraid it must get much worse before any one takes a
> stand. Look at the pro lifers, they are making headway, but still
> many people will not pick up a sign and picket or march or stand
> with them.  I have and do. I believe my child was taken because I
> refused to have an abortion when her father demanded I have one.  We
> must keep fighting.  I am writing my book about my story, if we all
> wrote books, it would help.

--- Jon Lane  <>

> A proof copy of our soon-to-be-published blog is here.
>  Your
> story is included.  The blog will be linked from
> soon so check back and link us.

--- judy <>

> I wish I had some wise words for you John, but I'm sorry I don't. We
> are still fighting our case and getting no where. We've written
> letters and filed complaints and the illegal things that have been
> happening to my husband are only getting worse. We try to keep our
> faith and do what we can and trust God; but sometimes you wonder if
> God is listening. I know we will all get through this mess but I
> worry so much about all the children that keep getting more and more
> screwed up because of the legal system. The Judges and lawyers don't
> care about the kids at all; it's all about the money!

> Well, I'll get off my soap box and say a prayer for you that you
> will get help with your situation and Ms. Clinton. Couldn't you have
> tried someone else? I'm sorry, I don't think much of
> her. Anyway. Good Luck and God Bless! Judy

--- Christian Fardel <>  FRANCE

> I keep reading the messages you receive.....  I feel sorry for you,
> and sometimes I think that you are heading in the wrong direction:
> when I see the laws and regulations passedrecently by your country,
> I get the feeling that it is no longer a democracy, and that you do
> not stand a chance to succeed. 

> Your actions are so disturbing thatt hey will try to get rid of
> way or another...  People are right, you should get the
> medias attention, by making sure that if you go to jail, that will
> be the last time..  You have been there so many times already that
> you could build a case .  The idea of getting the help from the
> muslim community is good.It will prove that people are united in
> this fight for family rights.... Good luck

--- Robert Dean <> CANADA

> From an American-Canadian DAD in Vancouver B.C. Canada.  I'm 3000
> miles away and can't be there on Thursday. *_YOU ARE RIGHT !!! WHAT
> YOU ARE DOING IS RIGHT !!!!!!!_* Our children can't do this fight,
> you are the one, what you are doing is right, it should never have
> come to this.  The punishment that you are going through is wrong.
> Our children our being TORTURED because they are being denied the
> RIGHT to have DAD as part of their lives.  *_DON'T GIVE UP SO MANY


> First and foremost, one person is not going to bring about
> reform... where are the parents that are close to you?  Where are
> those parents that are angry at the system?  Why aren't they going
> with you?  With all the effort that you have put forth, imagine what
> impact showing up with say 25 other concerned parents would do...
> imagine 100... and so on.
> I think some of your stories are very intimidating about what you
> have been through.  I think some people are afraid that doing what
> you do would harm them even more and continue to ruin any chances of
> them seeing their children again.  What about researching the public
> records in the area of family law... getting some names of parents
> that appear to have been boiled over by the system and contacting
> them to find out how they were affected by the system?

> Look at anyone in history that has ever brought about change... take
> MLK for instance.  MLK did not do it alone.  He had many, many
> people standing with him and that's what it takes... it takes effort
> and risk with everyone that has been affected by this obsurd system.

Yes, you make some good points.  But it all starts with 'one'.

--- Rob Steel <>

> John you have my blessings! If I where there I would go to jail with
> you my friend!  Im passing on this letter to Fathers4justice and
> hope that we have people in NY that will be with you!  If you go to
> jail We will raise hell here in your name!  If there is anything I
> can do for you please let me know!  I also think you should wait
> untill we are a little more organized, but if thats not where your
> heart is I fully understand!  I believe you dont fight the king
> untill you can cut off his head and thats what we're working to do!
> I believe your sacrifice is incredible, but one person shouldnt have
> to bair such a burdon.  We need to spread it out so they cant focus
> on one individual and prosicute.  We need to overwhelm the system
> and bogg it down with thousands of people like you and I.  I will be
> at the Shell trial again on tuesday and hope for the best! Please
> let me know if theres anything we can do for you in Colorado! Take
> care and God bless!


 > Thanks for taking the time to send us an email.  The more I hear
about the injustices of our court system, the more my blood boils.  
 > I don't feel that it's fair that any parent is alienated from their
child(ren) unless of course they are known to be violent, sex
offenders, or have potentially put their children at risk.  For the
most part, I have been fortunate to meet mostly mothers that are being
subjected to alienation but yet I also have known a few men as well. 
 > I guess there was a man that committed suicide over the situation
and it never should have even gone there.

 > The children have a right to both parents but yet some of these
children are put right back in the home where there's abuse, whether
it be sexual, verbal, emotional or physical.... 

If you have time I'd ask you to comment on a draft we have of a Family
Rights Act, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm -- if we believe a
parent (poor, average, or good) has a right to be an equal parent --
how do we protect that and what is the standard?  In the 'act' we say
that a parent has to be found guilty of 'demonstrated' conduct which
was a serious harm to their child with malintent.  They have to be
found guilty be a unanimous jury verdict of a crime.

Many times I see similar words to what you have above: "home where
there's abuse, whether it be sexual, verbal, emotional or physical"

WOW, while I agree with sexual abuse or beatings (and they are crimes
right now).  I never know what to think of verbal or emotional abuse?
We are people, we do it to each other all the time, sometimes on
purpose (most of the time not).  You may be a parent that loves your
kids, but you verbally run them down a lot -- does government step in?

--- "Bob Sell" <>

> John, I for one believe you have the right idea. I am only into my
> 2nd year fighting the American version of totalitarianism but agree
> that letter writing, and other verbal forms of communication -does
> not work.  American politicians have a "holier than you" attitude
> toward the American people they are supposed to represent. Instead
> of protecting our God given right to be free from people like them,
> they think they have a God given right to force what they believe is
> right for us down our throats as long as someone is stuffing their
> pockets full of money and power....

> Speaking in regards to the Florida system, I can only say that
> family law is a vile and disgusting abuse of legislative power and
> responsibility. I cannot tell you when the last time was that a
> legislator, judge, or even the governor stood up publicly for
> anybody's constitutional rights. I look forward to the day that the
> chickens come home to roost. They always do.

--- Harriet <>

> I don't have any children but was a foster parent for about a
> minute.  Due to my siding with the father of these children, I was
> decertified.  The foster family agency retaliated against the family
> through me because they know that the family likes me and trusted me
> with their kids. The bottom line is the kids should never have been
> placed in foster care in the first place.  When the mother didn't
> return to pick the kids up in time, the maternal grandmother (a
> felon) told some lies and DCFS believed her rather than giving the
> kids to their dad who, at that time, had no charges against him and
> wanted his kids. Instead, they keep giving them to the the mom (who,
> so far, has abandoned them three times in three years).  Now, based
> on her actions, DCFS is trying to terminate the father's rights.  He
> and the mother haven't had any interaction in about 21 months and he
> has filed for divorce. Why should his rights be terminated?
> I have been to rallies about DCFS corruption and have found more
> non-parents there than biological.  I can't understand this for the
> life of me. What are parents afraid of? Their kids are already
> "kidnapped."  What's to lose?  If they had my kids, I'd be sitting
> on their doorstep 24/7.  (Actually, I'd have never opened the door
> to let them GET my kids.)

> The attorneys are corrupt, the judges make rulings that no one
> follows (and some of them are corrupt as well).  The social workers
> are absolute morons.  There MUST be a way to change this without one
> man (YOU!) going to jail every other month.

Yes, it is an amazing system, especially the 'child protective'
people.  They just have TOO much power and parents find out they have
no real rights at all -- much is based on just hunches!

> I used to think that mothers were the more interested parent.  That
> was before I "aged" and met more people. I'm an elementary school
> teacher and over the course of the last five years, have met moms
> /and/ dads. Invariably, the fathers have seemed to be more diligent.
> Most of the mothers have been sorry. Many don't work yet the kids
> come to school with no books, often dirty and sleepy.  The mother of
> the children I fostered was always dressed to the nines, her hair
> and nails done.  The children usually looked like they'd slept in
> their clothes and would often greet me with "I'm hungry!"  Even
> after they were returned to her, I continued to buy them clothes and
> food.  The mom had a restraining order against the dad due to him
> fighting with her months before.  He served four months in jail for
> this. This made him persona non grata even though the reason they
> were fighting is because she wasn't taking care of the kids whereas
> he was working and going to school AND stopping by her apartment
> every day to bathe and feed the kids, take them to school, wash the
> clothes, and clean the apartment.  Who wouldn't get angry?!  A
> forensic psychologist evaluated her and described her as "having the
> mind of a third grader, might possibly be retarded, needs to see a
> psychiatrist."  Yet DCFS continues to give the kids to her.
> Amazing.

Everyone is different.  As we move this issue forward I try to avoid
comparisons of mothers and fathers, or who has been more truly
victimized by the system.  What we hope is clear is that ALL parents
have a right to EQUAL with respect to raising their children.

> I want to help fight this battle.  It's apparent that our country is
> hell-bent on keeping slavery as an institution.  Children being
> taken from their parents for nonsense (a dirty house, a spanking) is
> unconstitutional.  And only "certain" children are being taken.
> Those of the minority and the poor.  The rich get taken but they get
> to go right back home.  In fact, has Bobbie Christina, the child of
> the drug-using Whitney Houston and spousal abusing Bobby Brown, EVER
> been taken?!  And even though I was a foster parent myself, I know
> many who are nothing but money-grubbing overseers, keeping the kids
> for the master who makes even more money off of them than they do.
> I got $4,000.00 for the kids during the time I had them. I spent
> $8,000.00.  Most foster parents spend nothing.
> For some strange reason, people think this kind of thing will never 
> happen to them.  But more and more things are happening that we thought 
> would never happen.  Before we know it, we'll have to carry passes and 
> not be allowed to go certain places.  That's what happens when people 
> sit back and do nothing.


AKidsRight.Org                    "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
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