[AKidsRight.Org] Your FEEDBACK: help for a $60, 000 deadbeat -- Not!

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From: AKidsRight.Org Webmaster (webmaster@AKidsRight.org)
Date: Sat Mar 25 2006 - 16:12:36 EST

Good People & People of Faith:

We got a lot of email from a recent message on using NonViolent Action
in response to a jail sentence over 'support'. A planned effort to
'non-cooperate' with being jailed by refusing to eat & drink, but
asking the 'system' to provide an IV and feeding tube.  See the
original message at:

1. Your thoughts.
2. Your similar stories - from Doctor to Lawyer to You.
3. Your Legal suggestions/case law.

NOTE -- For those not familiar with our FEEDBACK.  This is where we
try to share your responses to our messages.  If you write in, you
should always get a reply (we don't use them all here, but we try).
Also, if we reply and you have a counter-point, please respond.  We
try to give you the last word.

NOTE -- Please do not respond to this message.  Due to volume there
will be another FEEDBACK message that contains some longer replies
and focuses on some critical points.

1.  Your thoughts.

--- Joseph.M.Mates@bankofamerica.com

> I support your plan of "noncooperation". You are taking it to the
> next level. Good luck!

--- thomas.conway@themadnucleus.com

> Truly amazing - Godspeed, my friend.

--- Sarvy Emo <concernedfriend28@yahoo.ca>

> I'm sorry to read about your court stuff. Maybe we can all come to
> court to support you... I will see if I for one can take the time
> off.

> Don't give up, together we can make a difference.... I admire your
> non-violent action, it speaks louder than fists.

--- John Fowler  <DFowler885@aol.com>

> Good luck to you. You will be our prayers. It is amazing that each
> story is more horrific than the last. the deeper you dig the worse
> it gets.  F4J US US and Ohio State Coordinator 

--- "Barbara C. Johnson" <barbaracjohnson@worldnet.att.net>

> Stay strong.  I wish I were in a position both politically,
> geographically, and financially to help you.  Shame that I am not.
> Stay strong.

--- Manfred Weber <manfredweber@shaw.ca>

> I am sickened by your personal situation. I have lost my two
> children due to the unjust court system and the alienation that the
> mother is allowed to do. I just recently filed a law suit against
> the Attorney General of B.C, the family maintenance enforcement
> agency and the mother of my children. Attached see my press release.
> John, all of us who want to be fathers to our children have to take
> whatever action we deem reasonable or capable. I truly admire you!

---  F Cottone <koolbiker1@yahoo.com>

> Hey John my prayers will be with you. I have tried to forward some
> of your issues to papers but as you know, they don't care. I care,
> others care and God cares.

Thanks ... especially for your efforts with the media.  I really do
appreciate that...  Hopefully, we can get some stories of parents
showing the love they have for their kids by demonstrating personal

---  Grasa <grasaa@yahoo.com>

> I have read your emails...and I feel for you...but you cannot
> victimize yourself..if you chose too, you are giving them more
> power..

> you need to file to modify the orders of support, since you cannot
> pay...jail time won't help them get the support they want from you.

> getting sick from not eating? what will you gain?  martyrdom? that
> won't work john...

> I am in same boat, i am fighting. I am going to school. I decided to
> make myself a lawyer..a least you see your son and can have memories
> of him... my ex won't let me see my son for 3 years...and my appeal
> just come out it affirmed the trial court imposed prior restraint.
> the court refused to find him in contempt..and nothing I can do...my
> lawyer is telling me to disobey the order,so I can be found
> criminally in contempt of court..so the prior restraint on my speech
> can be challenged...

> but I will not give up...and nor should you... if you feel
> comfortable getting sick for them... at your age, a hunger strike
> can have other complication, kidney failure, death...and what good
> would that result be for your son? think about that. Grasa.

I quite agree with you.  I'm not acting with the end to 'victimize'
myself -- but to be as forceful as I can in saying that jailing me was
a gross violation of justice.  I certainly don't think I will be
giving them more 'power'.

Regarding filing for changes, I have done that on multiple occasions
(below), they just threw them out.

--- Lois Hafler <prayer@godwatchesoverthechildren.org>

> Every worthy cause deserves a martyr and this cause is necessary for
> thousands of us to be jailed.  Only then will we attract national
> media attention to our plight.  I have total respect for what you
> are doing.  Unfortunately if you do not eat, I can promise you that
> you will be declared mentally ill and run the possibility of losing
> visitation with your son.  I will be praying for you!
> In Christ,
> Lois Hafler
> www.godwatchesoverthechildren.org

I think 'intent' is important here. This is no hunger-strike or desire
to be a martyr, I have a son to live for who I love very much.  But at
the same time, the system throwing me into jail for 6 months is a
gross injustice and assault on my dignity.  I will not cooperate with
them, but you can be sure I will be making every request that they
take the medical steps necessary to keep me sound.  Regarding
'mentally ill' -- that is always a risk, and people can always call
you anything. I have plenty of Court documents that say I don't care
about my child also..

--- SHelly Barreras <Shellyhots@aol.com>

> Please know that your faith is with the One who can do what no other
> can, He will always be with you and will not give you more than you
> can bear. My prayers will be with you from this moment on. I know I
> am far away but if there is anything I can do for you, besides
> praying, let me know. God bless you John.

> http://www.krightsradio.com/ And The Truth Continues...
> www.nfja.org
> http://www.shatterdmen.com/
> http://klein4change.com

--- Simon Dorey <simondorey@shaw.ca>

> Your story is so typical and such an abuse of the process. Any
> chance you can re-locate to the east coast?  At least this will
> reduce costs etc.

Relocation is really not an option.  My former spouse moved to the
other side of the Country to go to grad school (and found a program
not offered around here).  This is Dom's home, the area he knows, we
have a lot of family and friends.  This is stability.  Even if I moved
out there, it would still be only ONE weekend/month and she would
probably end up moving again.

2. Your similar stories - from Doctor to Lawyer to You.

--- Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, M.D. <hatfield@pol.net>

> Imagine all that plus having to pay a court appointed supervisor $50
> per hour to see your kid.  Imagine that plus your mother having to
> pay an attorney to represent her to obtain court appointed
> supervised visitation.  Imagine that plus a criminal investigation
> that turns up nothing. Imagine a so called "expert" who diagnoses
> you with "personality disorder" and "paranoid schizophrenia".
> Imagine being ordered to pay that expert.

[NOTE - see details on Dr. Hatfield's story at our Hall of Shame page,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/shame.htm - look under Wisconsin.]

--- "Clarence Maloney" <ct_maloney@hotmail.com>

> I highly respect your resolution, even to lying down on the floor of
> the courthouse to have to carry you out. I am sorry you could not
> contact Senator Clinton, and now you may be out of circulation for 6
> months. I read your posts every time. thanks I was separated from my
> 3 children in Germany for 16 years and could never see them, and
> they have been totally totally brainwashed against me with PAS. I
> wish better for your child in California.

Thanks for taking the time to write and the kind words.  I'm so sorry
to hear about your kids not loving you, it's an awful thing!

[NOTE - see details on Clarence's story at our Hall of Shame page,
http://www.AKidsRIght.Org/shame.htm -- recent listing at top.]

--- Fenton Heirtzler <zippy01_04@yahoo.com>

> You have my sympathy. My own son lives with his uncooperative mother
> in Geneva, Switzerland. Even greater expenses would be involved in
> having him visit in Canada or the US - if his mother "allowed" it.

--- "Carol Imandt" <CImandt@qcc.cuny.edu>

> John - I for one believe it - what I don't believe is that you are a
> deadbeat - why? Because my husband (I am his second wife) was deeply
> indebted to his first wife because he was NEVER placed in the child
> support guidelines - he had volunteered years before to pay more and
> that was written in stone.  He is self-employed and his ex says that
> he keeps his money in a safe! That's all - the courts believe her of
> course. HAHHHAHAHA!  What money - we're lucky to be making ends
> meet! Her attorney loves all this litigation since she gets paid by
> her and by us (we have been going pro se for years) so there will be
> no resolving this any time soon.

Yes, when you are self-employed, they feel free to do anything they
want and they don't have to prove it.  Clearly, they should work off
your 1040 income.

> Please, if you can, pay something - it seems to work.  We all know
> it's legal extortion, but you can't fight if you are in jail and the
> arrears will only increase.  John you've worked hard on our plight -
> don't give up, they've won all the battles but the war is not over
> yet.
Actually I have been paying a small amount, $50/month -- that does not
matter to them. They want it all, at the expense of me being able to
see my son.  It is an insane system, the noncooperation in jail is
about the strongest thing I can do to call attention to how wrong and
damaging it is.

--- John Fleming <johnflemingmps@yahoo.com>

> I owe approx. $35,000 but it is because I am disabled from working
> physically intensive labor jobs at 18 hours per day so I could pay my
> CS and then still didn't have enough to house and feed myself never
> mind all the other expenses and has been building unequity for 2
> years.

> People in general are not deadbeats. The problem really lays in
> "Keep them indigent" at all cost.

> 1. Allot of deadbeats are also (unlawfully) discriminated against by
> (prospective) employers that may have a conclusion that this is a
> violent person or he wouldn't be in that position (I was an employer
> and have heard the comments of the HR women).

> 2. Child support can potentially take more than 50% of your paycheck
> causing homelessness bad credit that in turn causes depression,
> stress, diabetes, etc.

> 3. Part of the synopsis is that we are being punished for no
> wrongdoing at all.

> 4. Allot of us not only have to pay the CS, but we don't even get to
> have a relationship with our beloved children that we are paying for
> causing PAS and (see #2).

---  "Lorie Morphis" <Loriem1050@comcast.net>

> It is a simple thing for the mother (or other custodial entity) to
> sign a "satisfaction" claiming he/she/it has received support in
> full (whether in American dollars or goose feathers).  What is the
> position of the "payee" in this respect?

I hope that someday she might want to sign that 'satisfaction'
agreement. But for right know, she is the one bringing the contempt
action and she wants me in jail.  There is a real hatred there and I
just can't get through it. Again, a lot of history.

If you wanted to actually see 'what happened' back in the divorce, you
can check out http://www.AKidsRight.Org/example_appeals.htm - that is
my experience.

I try not to antagonize her and I really do hope someday all this
could change by a simple change of heart.

--- "kriz" <triadd@tennis.com>

> My heart goes out to you. I know of the expenses to fly back and
> forth with children, I have had to do that for several years to the
> tune of at least $10,000.00. Please, if you were to ever become
> suicidal, kill as many of them before you ever hurt yourself. They
> do not deserve to live after what they have done to you. Although I
> hope you don't take that route. I know of several individuals who
> have taken their own lives after what the state has done to them.

> Good luck with your situation.

I love my son to much, and while my Faith is not always that strong,
it is enough to tell me suicide is a hopeless and selfish act.  I too
hear of the parents 'who had enough', I talked to the mother of a
parent who committed suicide.  How unfortunate and foolish.  The
'state' did not do that to them, they did it themselves.  I feel sorry
for them and for their families, but that is all.

Please, regarding killing others, what does that make us.  Little more
than the wackos we see in Iraq?  Don't those other people have parents
and children to?

NonViolent action calls for demonstrations of loving self sacrifice,
based on Faith, Love of other & yourself.  The violent person, the one
who takes their own life -- has none of those.

--- Brian Downs <bc_downs@yahoo.com>

> Keep up the fight.  You are not crazy.  I have similar experiences
> and have come to the same conclusion.

> Briefly, I was imputed with more income than I had ever made in my
> life, my ex was permitted to move my three children from Arizona
> (where we lived our entire 13 year marriage) to Michigan, my ex
> practices PAS, my ex's parents (who live nearby in Michigan) are
> millionaires, I have been in jail twice, and I have been to court
> about 50 times or more.  So I can relate to your cause.

> I also am a computer engineer and attorney (previously worked on
> patents for Raytheon and Honeywell) and I have come to the same
> conclusion about jail.  The next time I go in, I just plan to stay
> there while they have to release thieves, robbers, drug dealers,
> etc. due to over crowding.  I had not thought of lying down, forcing
> IV for fluids, etc.  I will have to consider that also.  One tip I
> learned at our jail in Kent County, Michigan, is to be sure to wear
> something warm.  They like to lock you in a cold cement cell with no
> blankets.  It is quite miserable to be cold for 12 hours or
> more. Good luck and keep up the fight. Brian Downs
> http://www.FIXTHEFOC.com

--- Robert Parker <robertparker777@yahoo.com>

> I am very sorry for the injustice that you are undergoing...I am a
> victim as well having been forced to spend 40days in jail on a
> child support case that was way beyond the statute of limitations
> for collection as well as prosecution.  That did not stop this ass
> hole judge in genessee county michigan from continuing this unjust
> prosecution....which, incidentally cost me a $240,000 a year
> job.....I could go on and on....but suffice it to say that there
> are those of us who do support your efforts....Bob Parker

Sorry to hear about what happened to you.  It really is a gross
injustice.  You are no longer a parent, just some type of ATM machine
and that is all they care about.

--- Terence Moore <papa@allmail.net>

> "Child support" is the fuel that runs the machine that destroys men
> and children. The machine must die. "Child support" should never be
> paid by anyone, because it does not support children, but rather
> creates a profit incentive to exploit and destroy children's real
> support system.<br>

> There is no such thing as a deadbeat dad, only fathers whose legal
> rights are trampled by a system practicing power, ignoring law,
> devoid of justice, motivated by feminist idealogy. There is no
> justice in such a system. <br>

> This story has played out thousands of times, and is as disgusting
> each time as it was the last. There is no last minute solution I
> know of, but rather we can only prevent it next time by changing the
> climate in which such injustice occurs. We can only change the
> climate by joining together as brothers in solidarity to oppose the
> machine. <br>

> Blessings to John Murtari. You are in my prayers.

3. Your Legal suggestions/case law.

--- "Roger Knight" <rogerwknight@hotmail.com>

> I wonder what Mr. William Bartholomae thinks about the Antipeonage
> Act of 1867?  18 U.S.C. §1581 and 42 U.S.C. §1994 Further details
> at http://www.antipeonage.0catch.com/

> Why is it these bozo lawyers representing dads cannot even take the
> 30 minutes or so to look up these laws when they KNOW COERCION of
> EMPLOYMENT is what is going on?  It is EXTORTION, for which there
> are extremely good public policy reasons to prohibit.  Reasons that
> do not magically disappear merely because some black robes violating
> their oaths of office impose an order to pay child support while
> simultaneously stripping the father of his Troxel v. Granville, and
> Meyer-Pierce rights.

> John, you elegantly describe the problem.  The Antipeonage Act is

--- Tom Kirkpatrick <tak2166@aol.com> 

> John - A man among men; of faith; of dignity; of inner strength.

> For starters, you're no deadbeat.  Like all of us, you're just
> another non-custodial father with zero rights.

> It should come as no surprise, they've separated child support from
> visitation in family law statutes across the board.  Your ex can
> blatantly refuse to allow visitation with no fear of consequences.
> But child support arrearages, for any reason, will make your life
> hell.  It matters not that your ex re-married a millionaire.  It
> matters not that she renders any form of visitation to be utterly
> impossible.  It matters not that you're at the mercy of the Bush
> economy or your whimsical employer.  Your tally of bricks shall not
> diminish, no matter what.

> As we know, the system singles us out one at a time.  Fighting the
> system alone only fuels their fire.  Nothing will change.  Any
> change of significant consequence will require every non-custodial
> dad across America to immediately withhold all child support and
> alimony payments.  If necessary, dads may have to quit their jobs
> and effectively sever all paper trails.  To be effective,
> non-custodial dads would need to do this all at the same time.  Such
> action would serve 2 purposes.  1) It would immediately shut down
> and effectively cripple, if not topple, the system.  2) It would
> certainly get the attention of all powers that be.

> As demonstrators in the 60's said with conviction, "They can't put
> us all in jail."  Indeed, they tried.  With many, they did!!  But in
> the end, we won!! America has become a different society because of
> their sacrifice.

What you say about the system is quite right, it is all about the
money.  I think they like the focus on money because it is easy to
count on a spreadsheet and balance/total -- love is much harder....

I'd like to word things in terms of what 'parents' must to, not just
'dads'.  Although it happens more often to men, I know women in
similar insane support situations.  It will require public effort, but
I do not feel that 'not paying' is the answer.  There are situations
where the kids do need the money (even if the other parent is foolish)
and it diminishes the action if they are at risk.  Another side effect
of noy paying is that it keeps the money in your pocket, what many
would easily say is another motive.

NonViolent Action calls for voluntary sacrifice.  If the whole idea of
not-paying is really to end up in jail.  There are a lot of better
ways to get there, i.e. as I have done, just quietly walk outside the
offices of your Member of Congress carrying a picture of you and your

--- Brad Smith <papatopierre@yahoo.com>

> I cried when I read your post below. But I_may_be on the trail of
> something that you could take up the court ladder if your attorney
> can help you. My case directly relates to your child support
> predicament. I was just served for my first contempt hearing on
> arrears last week. Here are a couple of quotes that I am following
> up on at the law library tonight for my Supreme Court case, but
> relate to the contempt issues:
> "A judgment rendered in violation of due process is void." World
> Wide Volkswagen v Woodsen, 444 US 286, 291 (1980);
> Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1574: 

> Void judgment.  One which has has no legal force or effect,
> invalidity of which may be asserted by any person whose rights are
> affected at any time and at any place directly or collaterally.
> Reynolds v. Volunteer State Life Ins. Co., Tex.Civ.App., 80 S.W.2d
> 1087, 1092.  One which from its inception is and forever continues
> to be absolutely null, without legal efficacy, ineffectual to bind
> parties or support a right, of no legal force and effect whatever,
> and incapable of confirmation, ratification, or enforcement in any
> manner or to any degree.  Judgment is a "void judgment" if court
> that rendered judgment lacked jurisdiction of the subject matter, or
> of the parties, or acted in a manner inconsistent with due process.
> Klugh v. U.S., D.C.S.C., 610 F.Supp. 892, 901.  See also Voidable
> judgment.
> There are two kinds of due process. First, procedural due process,
> which basically means following a fair procedure. Some of my case is
> based upon this. The other is substantive due process, which
> essentially means the government has to respect our "fundamental
> rights" recognized by the U. S. Supreme Court. The most basic
> recognized fundamental rights are those relating to parenting our
> children. When fundamental rights are at stake, the government must
> use heightened procedures and standards and must protect those
> fundamental rights. They clearly have not done so in your case or
> most of our cases. Now get this. A "void judgment" may attacked at
> any time with no time limits.

--- "Ms. Stewart" <ravenwaverider@yahoo.com>

> Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141, makes it unlawful for state or
> local law enforcement agencies to allow officers to engage in a
> pattern or practice of conduct that deprives persons of rights
> protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States. This law
> is commonly referred to as the Police Misconduct Statute. This law
> gives DOJ the authority to seek civil remedies in cases where it is
> determined that law enforcement agencies have policies or practices
> which foster a pattern of misconduct by employees. This action is
> directed against an agency, not against individual officers. The
> types of issues which may initiate a Pattern and Practice
> investigation include:

> Lack of supervision/monitoring of officers' actions. Officers not
> providing justification or reporting incidents involving the use of
> force. Lack of, or improper training of officers. A department
> having a citizen complaint process which treats complainants as
> adversaries.
webmaster@AKidsRight.Org             "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)      http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

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