[AKidsRight.Org] Murtari starting jail on July 31st - Your FEEDBACK!

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From: AKidsRight.Org Webmaster (webmaster@akidsright.org)
Date: Fri Jul 28 2006 - 13:29:22 EDT

Good People & People of Faith,

This message has info on:
1. Reporting to Jail - Monday, July 31st.
2. Your FEEDBACK - worth going to jail over?

1. Reporting to Jail - Monday, July 31st.
John Murtari will be reporting to the Jamesville Correctional Facility
(just south of Syracuse, NY) on July 31st at about 5PM.  He plans on
'non-cooperating' as outlined in a prior message (link below).

Another message will be sent out Monday/Tuesday with information on
how to contact John and various officials. Please check the web site
for the most current info:

We have prepared a News Release and welcome anyone who can make media
contacts and help get the word out on what will be happening next
week: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/release36.htm

Teri Stoddard's (media person), contact info is on the release.

2. Your FEEDBACK -- worth going to jail over?
There was a tremendous response to the last message about resisting
an unjust jail sentence through non-cooperation,

There were some good observations made and fair questions asked.

For those new to the list, a few notes on how we do our FEEDBACK.
- We pretty much print what you send in -- good or bad.
- We always try to give you a personal reply, although our
  reply may not be printed below if it doesn't 'add anything'.
- Just because we print it, doesn't mean we agree with it.
- If you give us a follow-up, we try to give you the last word.

--- Dan Diebolt <dandiebolt@yahoo.com>

> Best of luck with court. be strong.

--- "bright one" <linda8532@yahoo.com>

> do you realize how nutty you sound?  

--- Chuck DeHart <dehartcg@earthlink.net>

> The pictures look great [http://www.murtari.org/photoGallery] and I
> can see the love in both of your eyes!  I will remember you and your
> efforts in our prayers.

--- Joani <Putzangel@aol.com>

> GO0D LUCK!  I think you are on the right track to get their
> attention.  I am sure you have already contacted the newspapers to
> get them involved doing a story.  My prays are with you that you are
> successful in getting these ignorant ignoramuses (a bit redundant
> but so are they) to hear what we have been talking about for years.
> Again, good luck.

--- Dan Wilson <PfcpacDanWilson@aol.com>  http://parentsforchildren.net/

> Yes, it is A. Hunger Strike, and I think its a good Idea!

Well, it always depends on what you think a word means.  But I think
the classic 'Hunger Strike' is someone refusing to eat until some
demands are meant.  They are willing to harm themselves.

As I think I said, I am non-cooperating.  I expect them to fully take
care of me and want them to give me an IV, etc... to keep me well.  I
should not be in jail, my rights were violated, and I am their
complete burden

--- Monica <bosemietze@sbcglobal.net>

> The common law and statutes say that when you're in state custody
> (prison, school, etc), that they have to take care of you, or else
> if you die or become ill, you or yours can sue.

--- Carol <TunieMorgan@aol.com>

> ... I hate to see you do this, but I understand, and respect you for
> what you have chosen to do. I'll be praying for you again, and hope
> that what you're doing will help make a difference.

--- "Mark Bitara" <mtbitara@hotmail.com>

> Just to let you know I admire you for what you are doing and for
> your principles.  I hope you and your son, and the many others in
> our shoes, get justice soon.

--- Tammy Bowman <tamdpm@yahoo.com>

> If you end up stuck in jail for 6 months, KNOW that our thoughts and
> prayers are with you.  Know that each day, more and more people are
> made aware of the plight of children of divorce and the destruction
> of the evil FC system...

--- Glenn Tyrrell <glennt@soundinsurance.ca>

> Good luck!! I felt the exact same way last month and did the exact
> same thing. I was prepare to go as long as needed.

> My family became extremely concerned and payed the ransom they
> demanded.  I have very mixed emotions about what they did. I wish
> you the best in your struggles!!

--- "Wes Collins" cwcpsc@bellsouth.net

> For the Record, the Ghandi approach is fine, if thats what you want
> to do. These days, they'll let you waste away and die, and make
> reality TV out of it.

You make a good point, a lot of people now-a-days think that acting
out of anger and revenge and using violence works (you just have to
look at the Murder/Suicide bombers of the Mideast). I don't agree at
all -- I think if we turn the love we have for our kids into
motivation for acts of personal sacrifice, that it will have a
powerful effect for family law reform.

Along with you, I'd like to find out if it really works.  That is why
when I report to "Jail" on Monday, I will be kind, polite, but
absolutely refuse to cooperate with being a captive or help in their
processing. I have done nothing that deserves to be treated like a
criminal.  They will have to carry me around, feed and hydrate me via
medical means (message above has details).  It is going to be a
painful experience, but I am confident it will have value and that
good things will happen as a result.

It also places my trust in a LOT of good people that are out there to
support me from the outside.  Obviously, the jail is going to want to
hide me away and limit communication.

I think more people need to join in this type of effort the way they
did to break segregation.  We'll all just have to see what happens.

--- Kathryn <star_sapphire999@yahoo.com>

> I received your mailing re: your plight.  I give you full support
> from my heart. You are truly a modern day hero to me. I am so happy
> you were able to spend time with your son. I wrote to you some time
> ago, your response warmed me... Once strong, you could say the
> heartache beat me. For my sanity I needed to back off... I am proud
> of your pledge for justice. You go guy!

Sorry to hear about your situation.  I am so very, very lucky,
and I don't know how some parents get through it.  I'll be going to
jail on Monday and it feels very easy. There may be some pain, but
a lot of people have been very supportive.

> All my blessings to you. You do what I feel so strongly in my
> heart. I'm weakened now from my trauma. my 18 year old son is gone,
> he now no longer loves me as brainwashed. He now speaks his dads
> words. my daughter is 15, confused, thinking this rot is normal. Of
> course it is all she knows. I am such a loving person. Crusade John,
> with my full blessing. I am directly writing to you so that u get
> this in time. I just want to tell you I admire your efforts, each
> and everyone of them.

> God bless you, stay strong, do not chose the path of least
> resistance.

--- Raphael Spindell <raphaelspindell@yahoo.com> http://www.bringlovehome.com/

> I feel your pain, I am here for you in spirit, I just finished 9
> months in NYC prison for issues stemming from the state abuse of my
> family.  If you need anything during your incarceration that I can
> do from my meager resources, reach out.

WOW - I went to your web site and ready the story.  What a tragedy!
So many people just don't believe this kind of stuff goes on every
day.  I'm very sorry to hear what happened and I'll keep you in mind
as I go through my experience.

If you want more publicity, you are welcome to post
your story at our Hall of Shame, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/shame.htm

--- crc.ky@zoomtown.com

> I am sorry you have to suffer so.  I am even sorrier that more men
> are not up in arms for the plight of their gender in our family
> courts resulting is overall destructive harm on their children.
> Children need their fathers and children do not need to be
> emotionally abused by the system to the point they watch their
> father suffer through no fault of their own.

Well, hopefully that will change with time as more parents begin to
take action.  I also hope we can identify ourselves as parents and not
just as moms or dads hurt by the system.  About half the members of
our group are moms.

--- "Gregory Romeo" gromeo747@yahoo.com

> Don't take this wrong, as I have known John since early intervention
> and gatherings in Washington, DC since 1999 and on...  A lot of what
> is happening to John has been brought on by his tactics and his
> testing the waters of being a martyr.
> You see, he has been warned and advised by many, many folks along
> the way that his efforts with his desires to bitch and moan at
> Senator Clinton is a long lost cause, yet as you see, now he will be
> spending time inside jail, causing the taxpayers financial duress
> because John just won't get it through his head that....
> If you keep doing what you are doing, you will always get what you
> got!
> This is something that many in the Father's Movement fail to realize
> as well. THAT is why things have drug on for so long.  Minus the
> lack of backbone and trust to toss funds into a coffer for ANY
> group, we all fail as we are not focusing on solutions... Only
> chasing after symptoms....
> We jump at each and every energized moron that pops-up with the "fix
> of the day" or Magic Pill remedy and end up wasting valuable time
> and resources a nickle here, a dime there and chase rabbit trails in
> hopes of salvation. ALWAYS ending up right back where we started 40
> freaking years ago!
> We ALL have failed to focus on SOLUTIONS! We have ALL failed in
> being able to trust one group or the other. We have ALL failed by
> allowing women to come onboard the Father's Movement and water-down
> our intent and direction. We have ALL failed by trying to PORTRAY
> the meek, mild, gentle Dad image when first of all with the
> exceptions of about 2 dozen actors, WE CANNOT ACT!  We ARE pissed
> off. We ARE MAD AS HELL and we do nothing but look like a bunch of
> dumb bastards each and every time we cow-toe to the reality of our
> demise.

---  Douglas Richardson <dougmrich@yahoo.com>

> I do wish you the best in your quest and my heart is with you. It is
> ones who stand strong that will make a difference for the weak. some
> talk a strong game as I have experienced in OUR quest for justice as
> many seem to speak with out action. They are quit honestly part of
> the problem more then a solution as the ones whom stand tall loose
> credibility to just how serious we are.

Yes, we all need to be careful in what we say.  Strong words call for
strong action. If I had other family responsibilities, I could not
risk jail and I'm sure that effects many. But there are also those for
whom it would be possible -- they just don't have faith to believe
that type of personal sacrifice matters.  Everybody wants a group of
others with them....

> I only wish I had the answers to unity and understanding, but I
> assure you in the name of MY son I will continue driving home the
> very same issue you are giving a irreplaceable part of your life
> for.

Thanks.  I draw a lot of confidence from the history of
segregation. People thought it would never change and every black was
afraid to challenge the system -- eventually, they had the faith to do

--- Charles Horton <jah1tafari@yahoo.com>

> I am hearten to here that you have been sentenced to jail.  Is this
> your doing or the will of God?  That is the question I ask myself
> when I find myself in such situations.  John it is good that you
> and your son got to spend quality time together.

Well, I like to think that as long as you act with honesty and love
that divine providence always moves your life in the right direction.
I am so thankful that we had a great vacation together -- that this
'threat' doesn't really bother me.  They were trying to do it in
the spring, and eliminate our vacation -- that would have been very

> I am a parent that don't get to see my children.  I went 1500 miles
> to a court hearing were the mother concealed the children in
> Oklahoma. Being summoned to do so to face charges of Depriving the
> children even though I have not seen them in 2 yrs ...
> The children were not allowed to see me nor was I allowed to see
> them.  I went only to have the mother's attorney get a continuation.
> The judge was bias, and racist.  They tried to arrest me before I
> went into court. I was threatened.  All this just for standing up
> for my children against the abuse that they and I are receiving...

VERY sorry to hear of what happened to you.  The system is a terrible
thing.  What you went through is the worse injustice and indignity.  I
hope you will keep trying and that things will work out better in the

--- "Diane Booth" <childrescuer@hotmail.com>

> I am sorry to hear that, John. I have another friend, Julie, who was
> just visiting her folks in California (she was living in Washington
> State) and her husband was arrested and CPS apprehended her three
> children. She had already had three of her previous children
> apprehended and adopted out.&nbsp; This tells me that it is not safe
> to even GO to California with children.

Wow, very sorry to hear that.  It is amazing what they can do and
never be required to have any proof good enough to convince a jury.

> I am waiting and hoping to hear from Julie. I am afraid they may
> arrest her to and charge her with endangerment.&nbsp; I had her
> children's photos on my web site, but I have taken them down because
> I was afraid it could hurt both her and my cases.

Well, I don't know about that.  It is a tough decision, they want to
scare you, make you be quiet -- and jail is a big threat. It would
wipe many people out, cost them their jobs and homes.  It may not be
for everyone, but I think soon some people will say, "I lost the MOST
important thing in my live, my kids -- so now you want to scare me
with jail?  Is that suppose to matter?"

> This terrible thing seems to be getting worse in the judicial/prison
> industry instead of better.&nbsp; I have an opportunity to do a
> Lifetime TV show in Hollywood, but now I am afraid to go to
> California.  This is terrible

You know your situation.  It can be tough to decide and sometimes we
waiver back & forth. I would say decide when you feel the best and
confident in yourself and in your love for your son.  Having faith
that there are a lot of good people out there.and if you believe -- to
have Faith in a loving God that cares for you even more than you do
for your son.

That is what got me ready for going to jail on Monday, and my plan of
non-cooperation.  No more fear.

--- "Jeremy Swanson" <swanson@storm.ca>

> God Bless you and your sacrifice for us John. God bless your dear
> son and all our children too.

Thanks for the thoughts. Obviously, if it wasn't for Dom, I wouldn't
be doing this just for others (and that is a sad observation about my
faith and concern for others).  That is why I don't get too concerned
when other parents don't come forward or help much -- we all have our
stuff! ... When the Judge offered me the option of 'probation' versus
'jail' -- it was a very tempting proposition.

> In my struggle I tried the diplomatic approach first. That has been
> a long time ago. And a world apart from this past April when the
> enemy send two detective bullies to burst illegally though my door
> (while I was sleeping defenseless in bed) with guns and leather
> jackets to harass and intimidate me. I already know what their file
> on me says. I might as well be a middle-eastern terrorist. And I
> have already got to understand completely how simple it is to 'make'
> someone into a "dangerous" person simply by applying words to a
> file-with no basis in truth-but enough to send a man to prison and
> have him deported simply because of the degree of lie....

Yes, I'm very sorry to hear that.  So many people don't believe that
kind of stuff happens.  They think 'professional' reports are the
FACTS, they are not -- the doctors, etc.. are all subject to the same
biases we all are and in most of these cases it gets down to just 'he
said' vs. 'she said' -- and they want to guess.

That is why I think it so crucial in reform that a Criminal Jury of
your peers convict you of a serious crime against your children,
before you can be considered an unfit or less than EQUAL parent.  It
get's rid of all the 'evaluations' and guesses.

> So many people tell me to just "move on". If they met the people I
> meet and communicate with every single day and got to hear how they
> are treated by the courts and the police they would think
> differently. If they knew or could witness that their destruction is
> worse even than mine they would understand how bitter anyone would
> be. And then I get to meet their children too and I witness their
> pain and distress. Wait until they meet a man in Ottawa who once was
> happy and prosperous and financially comfortable in his own
> business-but now reduced to poverty and legal aid (and threatened
> with losing that too-just like me) and who has lost everything...

It is a real tragedy.  I think Dom and I have it bad, but it is
nothing compared to how some folks have been treated.  Unfortunately,
almost all of us ourselves -- didn't think much about Family Law
reform until it happened to us (me included!).

> ... Like everyone else I yearn for peace and to be with my loved
> ones. But the system prevents even that. I have no desire to fight
> but I must. I would like to make plastic models with my sons too but
> I can't. I would like to do all the things that ordinary men and
> dads do but I can't.

> .... And worse is already happening and yet to come. But I will not
> turn my back and pretend that all will be well if I just walk away
> and live somewhere else. That's exactly what the other side
> wants. Besides my death that is. And probably yours.

> Whatever happens-and it probably will-please tell those who will
> listen that I died facing the bastards. You and I are brothers in
> this struggle and I am proud to 'know' you and know of your struggle
> alongside me for our most basic human rights.

I don't know if you have read the material at the site on Gandhi and
King, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm -- but I think
NonViolent Action by parents (demonstrations of loving sacrifice) will
help break through the public biases of people and make them rethink
things -- just like it did with segregation.

webmaster@AKidsRight.Org             "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)      http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

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