[AKidsRight.Org] Clinton effort update/ ACFC Concerns/ Your FEEDBACK

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From: John Murtari (jmurtari@akidsright.org)
Date: Sat Sep 08 2007 - 20:15:53 EDT

Good People & People of Faith,

1. Sen. Clinton - your help at the Federal Building.
2. Clinton Quotes - on family.
3. Serious Problems at ACFC - Dr. Stephen Baskerville
4. Your FEEDBACK - on chalk and the Federal Plaza.
5. Your FEEDBACK - on methods/goals.

Before getting into the message, just a brief personal note on my
conduct and motivation.  I didn't think it was necessary, but at times
it's easy to 'read' something into a message that does not exist.

1) As much as I encourage participation, please don't see this as
frustration or disappointment on my part.  Quite honestly, I've
ignored similar messages asking for help.  We only have so much time.

2) Like many of you, I'm frustrated by talk and lack of action.  I've
promoted the idea that as parents we can use our willingness to make
personal self sacrifice as a powerful action for reform.  I set a real
goal: Have Sen. Clinton come to Syracuse for a meeting with parents
and hear their stories of pain.  That concrete result might encourge
more people that NonViolent Action works.

3) My actions are about 'me' and about 'us'.  I want to use a term
that I've heard in jail, especially among Black inmates, when someone
is asked, "How you doing?"  The response, "I'm blessed."  Truly, I am
blessed. My son and I are so fortunate in comparison to so very many.

I also believe I must 'give back' from that great blessing I've
received -- or I may choke from my good fortune.  I also recall the
great many tears shed by my son & I through this struggle -- they
should not have been in vain and I struggle to give them meaning.

4) I'd like to have another Mom & Dad with me, it would make this so
much easier, but that is not a show-stopper.  I happily take action
alone because that is what I believe.  I have to try and live the life
I believe.

5) I keep a sense of humour through it all.  Regardless of the ups &
downs, the plan of God is unfolding as it should.  It doesn't need me,
but I achieve peace when working for good -- and the GREAT Civil Right
we seek to be presumed FIT & EQUAL parents is a GREAT good!  

The indigity and suffering we've been forced to experience can start a
growing anger that consumes us from within, a flame that destroys our
lives -- the simple act of writing "I Love Dom" (no matter what the
Court says) is a mysterious source of peace.

1. Sen. Clinton - your help at the Federal Building
I've had a chance to collect my thoughts about the recent week's
events at the Syracuse Federal building. As many know I was jailed for
chalking "I Love Dom" and "Sen. Clinton Help Us!" on the ground.  You
can now check the web site for copies of the Court documents in my
case and you can read the broad 'stay away' order issued by a Federal
Magistrate: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton

I plan on returning to the Federal Plaza in the near future and take
the risk the US Magistrate may find me in contempt of his order.  The
maximum penalty is six months.  I hope we can all change that
potential future.

I feel we are very close to getting some real media attention, but
what is needed more than anything else -- is another Mom & Dad willing
to stand with me and risk arrest to demonstrate the love they have for
their kids and their commitment to peacefully sacrifice for reform.

In the FEEDBACK section below several people 'skewer' Sen Clinton for
refusing to meet with parents -- how can we say that?  In a rally we
had last month -- two people showed up.  Presently, I am the only one
there.  Given the messages I have received, only about four people
have called her office....  Do we seriously expect a Presidential
Candidate who is being hounded by hundreds of special interest groups
to pay special attention to us?

Perhaps Sen. Clinton's bottom line is: "If you people feel this is
some great civil right -- what are you willing to sacrifice to make it
happen as others have in the past?  We have not shown me, or the
general public, very much ....I'm busy.  Oh, and by the way, do you
folks have a positive goal you agree on?"

Our group's goal and approach to reform:

PLEASE, if you can't participate, try to call Sen. Clinton's local
office -- more details at the link above....


Make a polite call to her Washington and especially her Syracuse
Office (ask for/leave a message for Mr. Jay Biba).  You can also fax a
letter to both.

Syracuse Local rep, Jay Biba  tel: 315-448-0470,   fax: 315-448-0476
Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor), tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121 

Pictures: It would be great if someone could be in the 'vicinity' and
get pictures of what happens. Please contact me.

Publicity/PR: Ms. Teri Stoddard from California was great in providing
help before. She now has a much busier job and may not be able to make
media contacts. If you can help, please contact me.

Email: If you have been a member of AKidsRight.Org for a while and
think you can help in answering some email, please contact me.

2. Clinton Quotes - on family.
Submitted by: George Mason <george.mason@ma.f4j.us>

Perhaps you've seen these?  http://patriot.net/~crouch/adr/clinton.html

3. Serious Problems at ACFC - Dr. Stephen Baskerville
[I encourage everyone to read the following critique written by the
current President of ACFC.  It is something we may all learn from --
being able to give honest criticism without being nasty or demeaning
to those we disagree with - John]

Submitted by: Dr. Stephen Baskerville <sbaskerville@cox.net>

This letter is intended to begin a broad discussion on the future not
only of ACFC but of the entire fatherhood/family/shared parenting
movement. The opening and closing lines are not fluff. I really do
have the highest respect for David Roberts and ACFC, but as many of
you have complained, it has long been immobile. This is not an attempt
to tear down ACFC but to make it better.  That is only possible by
involving you, our membership and constituency...

... read/comment on his entire essay at:

4. Your FEEDBACK - on chalk and the Federal Plaza.
[NOTE: For those new to the list.  We try to reply to every message,
although not all replies are shows here.  If you follow up to a reply,
we try to give you the last word.]

--- Marc Winkler <mwocdssusc1983@yahoo.com>

> Was at state fair, briefly told clinton staffer about your case,
> asked staffer that she ask clinton to talk to you. How goes it?  got
> my federal case moving, this should be interesting.

--- "Paul C. Clark" <clark@global101.com>

> True ignorance is not being able to learn from past experiences. You
> are about as true as one can get, try banging your head against the
> wall to see if you feel anything. A year in jail is plenty of time
> to contract aids, then what will you have accomplished?

I would have answered your message sooner, but I have this headache
from a dent in my skull.  I think I have them right where they want
me! Seriously, I appreciate you taking the time to write.  As I said
before, we differ.  No use beating a dead horse, time will tell.

--- James Renwick Manship <James@STATESMANSHIP.US>

> You are a good man.  I like your "Chalk Talks" of the simple words,
> "I love you", or "I love Dom" your son.

> You are making a difference.  Keep up your righteous cause.  It was
> a privilege to meet you in person.  God bless you.  I am praying for
> you, and for other parents to join you.

--- "Bonnie B. Vallance" <valancejones21@aol.com>

> I do not see the logic in what you are doing. How is this going to
> help?

> You get to see your child. I do not understand your communication is
> not coming across effectively by parading around that way. Senator
> Clinton probably thinks you are unstable or crazy. Please forgive me
> but I must let you know not everyone sees what you are doing and
> understands it. You could be perceived as going about things in a
> way that is bizarre.  Best wishes because your heart is in the right
> place.

--- Joanna <hope4kidz@comcast.net>

> I do not understand why you continue to put graffiti on this Federal
> Building, when you have been told not to do so by police officers.

> Is this attention seeking or what?  It is not getting you into see
> Sen. Clinton and does not create the appearance of being mentally
> stable...

You are quite right about the attention seeking, the very same reason
a Black would sit in the front of Bus.

- Follow up from Joanna

> That is a pitiful analogy!! Are you saying that everyone should be
> allowed to deface public property?  Is this a civil right that
> should be afforded to everyone?

--- Grayson <rexjudicata@comcast.net>

> Have you tried to reach out to Hillary's supporters to join you? Or
> to Barak Obama's supporters?  Or Fred Thompson's?

> There must be people near you that are willing to join your protest !

I continue to try to get other parents involved as best I can -- I'm
hopeful some more folks will join the effort soon and then we can have
some real media coverage.

--- "William J. Wagener" <producer@onsecondthought.tv>

> Larry [ CRISPE.org ] on the Purple Bus might be able to swing by, if
> we can work it into our schedule, and someone will donate $400 or so
> buck to cover diesel fuel costs.  We will be in N.England in three
> days, and W. Virginia on 9th and Georgia in the 3rd week.

> This may not coincide with your court date, but bringing attention
> to the concept of 50% of each year with EACH parent is the sole
> purpose of the Purple bus.

5. Your FEEDBACK - on methods/goals.

--- <Michaell.Johnson@Equistar.com>

> I'm curious about something. Why do you commit illegal acts for
> attention? Aren't there ways to attract attention without committing
> illegal acts?

> Personally I feel like yours and others actions that are illegal
> hurt professional organizations that are trying to improve the very
> system you refer to.

The group's approach involves NonVIolent Action, when you have time
you can get some pretty complete detail and answers at

--- "EARL FIBISH" <earl9876@msn.com>

> I must respectfully correct you on one point. At least in my
> experience, it's a correction. That correction is: your point that
> Whites have not experienced prejudice and discrimination. I
> CERTAINLY HAVE!! In politically-correct places like San Francisco
> and Denver, there is rampant discrimination against Whites and
> especially White men. Aside from that, I'm with you all the way.

--- Phil Standely <pstanley@carolina.rr.com> http://www.unitedcivilrights.org/
    Director - North Carolina United Civil Rights Council Of America

> If I were located in your area, I would join you but, I too am in
> dire straights financially because of my divorce and custody fight.
> As far as F4J goes, they do use Families-4-Justice also and the
> fatigues were used to get attention.  Also part of their branding.
> When at war, dress for the occasion is how I see it.  And, the
> fatigues let the enemy know we ARE at war with the injustices
> perpetrated upon us.

> I think it would also be great to have everyone dressed in Black
> Suits like men in black lol... It would not put as much fear into
> the enemy as the fatigues would but, it would certainly get their
> attention!  Like you said, the blacks of past put it on the line for
> their cause.  Now we need to do the same and if you want the press
> involved, their has to be branding for your cause.  The blacks had
> the black panthers.  We have Fathers-4-Justice.

Many people share your view, but I don't see 'them' as the enemy.  As
a person of faith, I have to believe they are also our brothers &
sisters and we just don't know that.  We are looking for a conversion
of 'hearts', and that does not come by inducing fear?  Regarding your
final analogy, I think the NonViolent Action techniques of Martin
Luther King did much more to break desegregation than the
violence/confrontation of the Black Panthers.  I recall those times

--- Ipyramus <IPYRAMUS@yahoo.com>

> I wish you well, John. Those with the courage to fight the insanity
> will always be crushed by society. Those of us who are lessor men
> salute you. I have always believed that the peaceful change you seek
> will never come. It was in New York that the Green Mountain Boys
> made their presence known. I hope that your peaceful actions will
> continue, but I see no hope in justice being done. What is being
> done to men and women and children makes no sense. I wish you peace
> and calm.

I am quite hopeful of change and soon. I think many people would have
used similar words to describe segregation back in the early 50s --
but with real faith, change can happen.

- Follow up from Ipyramus

> he point you make about slavery required a religion based ideology
> to work. Even abolitionists were racists, but they felt compelled to
> fight and even die for the cause (Brown at Harper's Ferry). And even
> then it took 400 years before it stopped. And get this, it still
> goes on in America and around the world in some form.

> Maybe if you wrapped religion and economics around your ideology you
> might be able to make a better (and protected) 1st amendment
> argument for what you say and write. Our pain at how men are
> unfairly treated is ours alone. Until we make it America's pain we
> will be politically mute and out position moot....

--- "Marcia Winfield" <mw-99@att.net>

> To comment on your statement and then on your opinion; You state
> that a multi-faceted approach is needed and should be respected, and
> you are correct. A military attire or military stance is in keeping
> with multi-faceted. I understand your belief in non-violence but as
> a nation we are long overdue for a revolution.

> Thomas Jefferson opined that "His reliance upon the good sense of
> the people to rectify abuses in a proper manner was so strong that
> he deemed an occasional rebellion a desirable event, inasmuch as it
> afforded the best evidence that this sense was active and vigorous;
> to enlighten it, then, was the only thing necessary to ensure a
> favorable result....

> To Col. Edward Carrington.-- "I am persuaded myself that the good
> sense of the people will always be found to be the best army. They
> may be led astray for a moment but will soon correct themselves. The
> people are the only censors of their governors, and even their
> errors will tend to keep these to the true principles of their
> institution. To punish these errors too severely would be to
> suppress the only safeguard of the public liberty..."

> Rebellion then is part and parcel of the protection of our liberty
> however if we allow the "uniformed gov't" to intimidate us, back us
> down off the steps, and succeed in quieting our voices, then they
> will have succeeded yet again, in violating the very rights they
> swear to uphold. If, like Sen.  Clinton has demonstrated, there is
> no "elected official" interest in the woes of the people then
> perhaps it is time for the good sense of the people to rise up and
> throw off the oppressors...

> It is short sighted to disregard or show disdain for those that
> display militant determination, in the end it may be the only thing
> that will succeed in effecting the desired change.

I enjoy reading American history and admire Jefferson's vision, but
I'm also reminded of the French revolution and the blood-bath that the
'masses' can bring upon themselves.  Proper leadership is essential to
channeling that broad power.

Specifically, in the case of Family Law reform, I find the very idea
that methods of confrontation/violence will bring a solution are dead

- Follow up from Marcia

Thank you for your reply. There are countless examples of revolutions
resulting in bloodbath. The American Revolution certainly had its share of
blood. The civil rights revolution did as well. I support change through
collaboration and commitment to what is right and lawful. I support this
without question....

The arrogance of elected officials such as Hillary demonstrates
clearly that the people are of no real concern to her. One has to ask
then what is the concern? The politicians do what they do the way they
do it to get their own needs met. Their arrogance comes from too much
control for too long. We are long overdue for a revolution. You suffer
your cause when you are arrested and jailed. In revolution the
believers suffer their cause with their blood.  Revolution is part and
parcel to change; it has always been so and it will always be
so. Freedom isn't free and if we are not passionate stewards of our
freedoms, once lost we will never enjoy again.

I pray you are successful. I am not actively engaging in revolutionary
action however as Newt stated the other night...where is the outrage? 
Why are we content to allow atrocities to continue? That complacency
is why this movement fails to achieve its objectives. If no one cares,
if no one believes in the basic values of our constitution, if Hillary
won't even talk to you, then who's to advance the agenda?

--- Rj4687@aol.com

> You want the cause to be "Families for Justice" but it seems that
> your cause and that of those against CPS is different.  You are
> against Child Support Enforcement, and Parental Custody Laws in
> Civil cases....we are against have children ripped from both mother
> and father, caregiver, grandparent, family, home, friends...

Sorry for the mistaken idea about what the group stands for.  We
certainly do feel the solution should provide protection from CPS and
I thought that has been pretty clear on our list message and clearly a
goal at our web site, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm

> You have due process....you have court in which to argue your
> facts...you have the opportunity to hire a lawyer and sue for
> custody of your child (partial custody)...you could pay your child
> support and make arrangements to be in your child's life....  I
> don't understand how your situation and the situation of those
> fighting CPS is the same.;..

> I don't agree with you Mr. Murtari, I think your a bit on the crazy
> side and I think that you are bucking to get 12 years, or
> whatever....Yes, I believe that both parents have the right to be in
> their child's life...but, I think you are just showing the Judge
> that you are unstable and therefore not a good influence on your
> child, by your actions.  There is something to be said for stability
> and sanity, when it comes to being a parent.

> ... Until you go into labor and bleed to bring a child into the
> world, you will not be above the mother's natural right to nurture
> her birthed. Since you are a man, I don't expect you to understand
> that concept, but trust me...it is above the laws of man. Whoa be to
> any man who comes between me and my child! The man would know the
> meaning of "a woman scorned."  However, I am not the type of woman
> who would deny the father the right to visit his child, or even
> share custody if the situation was conducive to it.

Are you saying that as Father of my son I am somehow less than an
EQUAL parent?  That my love for him is somehow lacking?  If parents
separate/divorce, they should be EQUAL.  I assume you do not share
that goal.

                                       John Murtari
Coordinator                            AKidsRight.Org
jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org                "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)        http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

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